On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Joakim Signal <tut_at_lysator.liu.se> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, at 12:18, Per Andersson wrote:
>
>> mixed, we have to change something. Why should our ways of communicate be
>> excluded from change?
>
> Regarding changes in how we communicate, why is this discussion suddenly in
> english? This is a swedish FOSS group (but I doubt we would disallow
> non-swedes from joining). The use of english here could be seen as excluding
> those participants that prefer to communicate in swedish.
>
> While it is unlikely that the use of english here actually is a problem, it
> does illustrate the point that too much political correctness can lead to
> absurd situations (i.e., we are swedes, so why suddenly speak english
> here?).
Because the original comment that I commented on was in english maybe. I don't
understand what writing in english has to do with political correctness, lots of
people wrote in english before me.
There are lots of comments about "political correctness" leading to absurd
situations. It is very simple to avoid: Don't be absurd! (Like you are now for
instance with linking english with political correctness.)
För övrigt skriver jag gärna på svenska, spelar mig ingen roll.
>> This is exactly the kind of arch stereotype image of the
>> hacker/free software/geek/nerd movement that I think is bad for our group
>> constitution, and it probably scares people away or make them laugh at us,
>> or
>> both.
>
> Well, that web comic is by a nerd, for other nerds.
> What's the problem with that? All groups have internal jokes.
I fail to see how "all groups" having internal jokes make any of them good
(jokes or groups).
Internal things are generally pretty bad if you want to recruit new blood. It
makes it hard to join because unwritten rules dictate behaviour and
expectations.
> The problem of getting more people of different social backgrounds to join
> the FOSS world is certainly a difficult one to solve without a big dollar
> budget.
That is horse manure. Of course we don't need money to recruit new people, we
can all do it! Just invite people to start using free software, that would not
have made the step themselvel. Cost nothing, in terms of money, and is the best
way to recruit new contributors, by inviting them to use free software.
> But that doesn't mean that those of us that already are in the FOSS world
> must be forbidden to poke fun at ourselves (because we can still have a
> friendly attitude towards persons that are not the norm in our group).
No, who has spoken about forbidding anything?
I am just discussing what I think should avoid being a part of this list, if it
is intended to be a forum of outreach for the free software movement in
Stockholm (which is what I think of it).
>> I myself have issues with thinking that I don't know enough to participate
>> in free software, probably because of this level of elite thinking within
>> the
>> community.
>
> I know for a fact that many of my peers in the community have more
> knowledge/skills than me. And while that is not good for my ego, it doesn't
> prevent me from increasing my knowledge/skills and having fun, which are my
> fundamental motivations (and should be for everyone).
>
> And it can be a little scary as a beginner to join any type of community,
> not just those in the FOSS world.
Which is why the free software community, which has a pretty bad reputation,
should make an effort. Is that wrong?
> So I fail to see why we should stop the tradition of having a strong
> dedication to our craft, or stop being passionate about high quality
> software (which are some of the things that people refer to with this "elite
> thinking" labeling).
Strong dedication to our craft has nothing to do with our ways of communicating.
I don't follow you at all.
-- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlmReceived on 2010-08-30