From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 1 20:33:56 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o91IXYFa003746; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:33:42 +0200 Received: from vps1.henriknordstrom.net (vps1.henriknordstrom.net [195.20.207.177]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o91IXWPH003732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:33:32 +0200 Received: from henriknordstrom.net ([IPv6:2002:51d8:9fb7::1]) by vps1.henriknordstrom.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id o91IXRMs001401 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 18:33:29 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henriknordstrom.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o91IXQfF018941 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:33:26 +0200 Subject: Re: FOSS listan, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?f=F6r?= vem och till vilket syfte? From: Henrik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 20:33:26 +0200 Message-ID: <1285958006.11375.15.camel@henriknordstrom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.3 (2.30.3-1.fc13) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 01 Oct 2010 20:33:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 01 Oct 2010 20:33:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (vps1.henriknordstrom.net [IPv6:2a02:750:7::d0a]); Fri, 01 Oct 2010 18:33:29 +0000 (UTC) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se tis 2010-09-28 klockan 09:43 +0200 skrev Per Andersson: > Om vi t=E4nker oss att FOSS bara =E4r teknik, och inte politik alls, hur = skulle > det se ut d=E5? I s=E5dana fall, om syftet =E4r att diskutera/behandla te= knik > (oberoende av politik), d=E5 kan vi diskutera propriet=E4r programvara li= kav=E4l > som fri programvara. B=E5da =E4r lika mycket teknik. Min syn p=E5 saken =E4r att foss i sig inte =F6r politik. Begreppet politik handlar om beslutsfattande och r=E4tten att fatta beslut, = Grundtankarna i foss =E4r en ideologi, och samma grundtankar kan appliceras i politiskt arbete f=F6r m=E5nga bra =E4ndam=E5l. Mycket av arbetet i FSF centralt =E4r politiskt inriktat, f=F6r att underbygga och f=F6rst=E4rka den ideologi som ligger bakom FSF GNU GPL mm. > FOSS =E4r allts=E5 politik, det =E4r det som skiljer den fr=E5n annan pro= gramvara > och teknik. Den har ett annat syfte och m=E5l (=E4ven om det finns olika = niv=E5er > av hur mycket givetvis). Gr=E4nsen d=E4r =E4r mycket flytande, iaf i det korta perspektivet. Och tror inte heller m=E5nga anv=E4nder l=E5nga perspektiv n=E4r de funderar p=E5 om= de skall anv=E4nda FOSS licens eller icke-FOSS f=F6r vad de skriver. F=F6r anv=E4ndarna =E4r det m=E5nga fall egalt huruvuda FOSS eller propriet= =E4r programvara anv=E4nds. =C4r andra aspekter som =E4r de viktiga d=E4r. Mvh Henrik N _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 1 23:52:17 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o91Lq0Og032087; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:52:09 +0200 Received: from dewire.com (mail.dewire.com [83.140.172.130]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o91Lpx0Q032083 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:51:59 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dewire.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC5E1396E3C for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:51:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dewire.com Received: from dewire.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (torino.dewire.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gU2DZ9g5PKA9 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:51:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sleipner.localnet (unknown [10.9.0.4]) by dewire.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1368B1396D80 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:51:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Robin Rosenberg To: "FOSS-folk i Stockholm" Subject: Re: FOSS listan, =?iso-8859-1?q?f=F6r_vem_och_till_vilket?= syfte? Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 23:51:51 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.2 (Linux/2.6.32-25-generic; KDE/4.4.2; i686; ; ) References: <1285958006.11375.15.camel@henriknordstrom.net> In-Reply-To: <1285958006.11375.15.camel@henriknordstrom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010012351.51628.robin.rosenberg@dewire.com> X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 01 Oct 2010 23:52:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 01 Oct 2010 23:51:59 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se fredagen den 1 oktober 2010 20.33.26 skrev Henrik Nordstr=F6m: > tis 2010-09-28 klockan 09:43 +0200 skrev Per Andersson: > > Om vi t=E4nker oss att FOSS bara =E4r teknik, och inte politik alls, hur > > skulle det se ut d=E5? I s=E5dana fall, om syftet =E4r att diskutera/be= handla > > teknik (oberoende av politik), d=E5 kan vi diskutera propriet=E4r > > programvara likav=E4l som fri programvara. B=E5da =E4r lika mycket tekn= ik. > = > Min syn p=E5 saken =E4r att foss i sig inte =F6r politik. Begreppet polit= ik > handlar om beslutsfattande och r=E4tten att fatta beslut, P=E5 s=E4tt och vis. "Free Software" =E4r definitivt politisk, men Open Sou= rce =E4r = mera "l=E5t mig vara i fred". FOSS =E4r ett konstaterande att man kan f=E5 = vara i = fred med Fria Program lika bra som mera liberala OSS-licenser, bara man int= e = blandar in politiken. Detta =E4r allts=E5 en (politisk) diskussion om r=E4tten att besluta om vad= som = diskuteras p=E5 denna lista. Ett icke-politisk s=E4tt skulle vara att inte = delta i = politiska diskussioner som denna. Den som driver en linje f=F6r eller emot = politiska diskussioner driver politik. Ett mera subtilt s=E4tt att driva en = politik emot politiska diskussioner =E4r att dra ig=E5ng tekniska diskussio= ner och = helt enkelt =F6verr=F6sta de rent politiska tr=E5darna. En diskussion om va= d man f=E5r = och inte f=E5r diskutera k=E4nns v=E4ldigt o-fossigt f=F6r mig. I brist p=E5 tekniska =E4mnen s=E5 =E4r det i och f=F6r sig bra att n=E5n h= =E5ller liv i = listan s=E5 kanske vi kan hitta v=E5ra gemensamma tekniska intressen, =E4ve= n om mina just f=F6r stunden =E4r mera koncentrerade kring en gammal dieselmotor= (som = =E4r tillr=E4ckligt gammal f=F6r att patenten i den skall ha l=F6pt ut). [...] -- robin _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 3 23:06:22 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o93L5qV7027316; Sun, 3 Oct 2010 23:06:08 +0200 Received: from mail-ew0-f54.google.com (mail-ew0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o93L5o1k027312 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2010 23:05:51 +0200 Received: by ewy22 with SMTP id 22so2547125ewy.41 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:05:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type; bh=0rOMlobDd12PDIc/uvQleeICZQ45mR4L601Nza7fbbA=; b=suZ6/mslyvQEEaKni7yVnVj0LGW0qaY4Cr++f5cY2MLXCc29K6kULvjtik273UlrP8 jfmENHHjmv/OokBwLv5+yXwjuFz/1zbI6TfXsNT8jllX8PS7PcQGA/qqa0tF24mlwiBn cLXO4bO4nHlhDSq7M+evbZxDVdiz9rM+lkEyg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type; b=hZyIqqBRej3hCZi/5CfckcKD8oMxKksNApJ+AjPy06du6rpL5ZtOyktLX9jLEBpCV3 oVlBtzRW5+/fkAVmudwe+GDZsqWTDRDS5+VJjjMaVcLQuC9BYJQ1lW8V6w2J7t/AHtuT s5kORHbIEG8h0Xb31Z8u916ziXLYgjXBVTK0Y= Received: by 10.14.37.67 with SMTP id x43mr5369382eea.12.1286139945339; Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [85.225.175.162] (c-a2afe155.131-501-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se [85.225.175.162]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a48sm5961632eei.0.2010.10.03.14.05.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 Oct 2010 14:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4CA8F020.7040709@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 23:05:36 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Eiderb=E4ck?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; sv-SE; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100915 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Vill du vara med =?ISO-8859-1?Q?p=E5_konferensen_Dynamic_S?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?tockholm=3F?= X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 03 Oct 2010 23:06:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 03 Oct 2010 23:05:51 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0165081550==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0165081550== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040409010204040001010306" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040409010204040001010306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hej! Har du lust att vara med på konferensen Dynamic Stockholm tisdag 19 oktober 2010 på Kastellholmen? Inte bra FOSS-mjukvara dock men en del är det och annat kan kanske vara intressant i vilket fall. Anmäl dig i så fall via länken nedan i det engelskspråkiga utskicket. Förutom presentationerna nämnda i utskicket kommer det bli några minipresentationer om olika programspråk. Som det ser ut blir det fyra: en om Common-Lisp, en om Smalltalk, en om Python och en om (inte helt klart ännu) Groovy, Perl eller kanske Ruby. "Meet with Peers at Dynamic Stockholm! Cincom, Devoteam Quaint and TPG Objektfabriken have joined forces and invite you to an evening full of presentations and informal exchange around dynamic languages. Topics will comprise "Dynamic languages on mobile platforms" (Mikael Kindborg, MoSync), "Agile Release Strategy" (Niklas Björnerstedt, Core Group), "Web development with Seaside" (Julian Fitzell, Cincom) as well as a series of mini presentations highlighting the key cool aspect of each language -- the entire agenda will be published here shortly. To ensure your seat at this free-of-charge event, please sign up here: http://dynamicstockholm2010.eventbrite.com" Hälsningar Björn Eiderbäck --------------040409010204040001010306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hej!

Har du lust att vara med på konferensen Dynamic Stockholm tisdag 19 oktober 2010 på Kastellholmen?
Inte bra FOSS-mjukvara dock men en del är det och annat kan kanske vara intressant i vilket fall.

Anmäl dig i så fall via länken nedan i det engelskspråkiga utskicket.

Förutom presentationerna nämnda i utskicket kommer det bli några minipresentationer om olika programspråk. Som det ser ut blir det fyra: en om Common-Lisp, en om Smalltalk, en om Python och en om (inte helt klart ännu) Groovy, Perl eller kanske Ruby.

"Meet with Peers at Dynamic Stockholm!

Cincom, Devoteam Quaint and TPG Objektfabriken have joined forces and invite you to an evening full of presentations and informal exchange around dynamic languages. Topics will comprise “Dynamic languages on mobile platforms” (Mikael Kindborg, MoSync), "Agile Release Strategy" (Niklas Björnerstedt, Core Group), “Web development with Seaside” (Julian Fitzell, Cincom) as well as a series of mini presentations highlighting the key cool aspect of each language – the entire agenda will be published here shortly. To ensure your seat at this free-of-charge event, please sign up here: http://dynamicstockholm2010.eventbrite.com"

Hälsningar
Björn Eiderbäck --------------040409010204040001010306-- --===============0165081550== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0165081550==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 4 10:25:32 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o948PCaX006680; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:25:21 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o948PAWC006674 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:25:10 +0200 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:25:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: foss-sthlm@haxx.se Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?39_platser_kvar_p=E5_m=F6te_#4?= Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-1681269047-1286180694=:32471" Content-ID: X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:25:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:25:10 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-1681269047-1286180694=:32471 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; FORMAT=flowed; CHARSET=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: Hejsan Det finns fortfarande 39 lediga stolar, så det är inte försent att anmäla sig... http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/mote4.html -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-1681269047-1286180694=:32471 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-1681269047-1286180694=:32471-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Tue Oct 5 23:40:59 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o95LeaUS025183; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:40:47 +0200 Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o95LeYWJ025170 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:40:34 +0200 Received: by eyx24 with SMTP id 24so3954333eyx.41 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1dgaKcE9JVERsOa44PX58sZvvp3kLPhc2N4SvmgAAWs=; b=x5zHt4yXlUyu9dikU/8Xp3pg6vH1/B+sN/i0QYhwy8BA0I9s3UHq4kec4FAuTw4r4g z1zlGZ4kw9iJ9IpkyKFSLzPM6UYwozQfK7k/IWt0vY6dXtswIEeliQ4m40b0VdOA8FlL Dq3iZ8qKo7664rT204kiMxdRU5/Pk1A0hYIqs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IRfLXHGeUc9wsxkLD/WXEXv8/ZfLYYXPDgWeF88Lr8yFE8Jp7xFn/9cpV0pSfzZpaU yiecIvTky0303FxmQ0Q6KkQxihFbWQoXn4hOIlpYuoNlzFczYYdGrPTA8fdqmmPG0oSE wioSSZfJiwvivcsl76LRhrYoprdQVlUMZiKKc= Received: by 10.14.16.75 with SMTP id g51mr5829429eeg.14.1286314830599; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [85.226.146.214] (c-d692e255.131-501-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se [85.226.146.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z55sm77600eeh.9.2010.10.05.14.40.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4CAB9B4A.3060505@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:40:26 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_Eiderb=E4ck?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; sv-SE; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100915 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Nu finns det en =?ISO-8859-1?Q?v=E4nte-/intresseanm=E4lanslista_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?till_Dynamic_Stockholm=2C_19/10?= References: <4CA8F020.7040709@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4CA8F020.7040709@gmail.com> X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:40:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:40:34 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej, Nu finns det en v=E4ntelista till Dynamic Stockholm 2010, en liten = konferens om dynamiska spr=E5k och relaterade tekniker. Konferensen =E4r kostnadsfri och h=E5lls p=E5 Kastellholmen. Blir det tillr=E4ckligt m=E5nga intresseanm=E4lningar s=E5 tar vi in 30 per= soner = till och bokar en st=F6rre lokal. Anm=E4l dig p=E5 http://dynamicstockholm2010.eventbrite.com H=E4lsningar Bj=F6rn Eiderb=E4ck _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 10 15:11:15 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9ADAsdD022739; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:11:03 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9ADArDA022732 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:10:53 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:10:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Re=3A_Programmet_f=F6r_m=F6te_4?= In-Reply-To: <38725FC9-9F60-4375-8B37-85539ED58B8E@servern.info> Message-ID: References: <38725FC9-9F60-4375-8B37-85539ED58B8E@servern.info> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-1479082143-1286716253=:11953" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:11:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:10:53 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-1479082143-1286716253=:11953 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, Klas Meder Boqvist wrote: > Jag förslår, som alltid, Saddle and Sabre på tegnégatan, det blir en liten > promenad, men det är värt det. Okej låter ju schysst. Kan du hjälpa oss med bokningen? Vi har just nu 45 stycken "ja", 6 stycken "kanske", några som inte sagt ja eller nej plus att det ju fortfarande är drygt två veckor kvar så lite fler anmälningar kanske kommer. För övrigt har vi nu nått 81 anmälningar till evenemanget. -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-1479082143-1286716253=:11953 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-1479082143-1286716253=:11953-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 10 16:34:31 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9AEYFKZ019113; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:34:22 +0200 Received: from minerva.beerhazard.se (nobelium.se [194.14.0.68]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9AEVwvZ018356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:31:58 +0200 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (c-680ce555.036-13-73746f36.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se [85.229.12.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by minerva.beerhazard.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 08D24FEDC for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:31:55 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Programmet_f=F6r_m=F6te_4?= From: Lowe Schmidt In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:27:14 +0200 Message-Id: <290B6859-A8FD-4063-B1FE-D6CB6C3523F6@nobelium.se> References: To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:34:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:31:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:34:13 +0200 X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Daniel Stenberg wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sep 2010, Adam H wrote: > = >> Nu hoppas jag innerligt att n=E5gon filmar detta, f=F6r jag kommer inte = att kunna n=E4rvara ;( > = > =C4r det n=E5gon som kan ta p=E5 sig att filma m=F6te 4 och efter=E5t sed= an g=F6ra filmerna tillg=E4ngliga digitalt? > = Jag har plats p=E5 en server men ingen kamera att filma med. .lsc _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 10 17:06:41 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9AF6V70014302; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:06:35 +0200 Received: from wijk.oijk.net (qmailr@wijk.oijk.net [91.90.25.106]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9AF6TJ7014253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:06:29 +0200 Received: (qmail 5719 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2010 15:06:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Oct 2010 15:06:27 -0000 From: Klas Meder Boqvist Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Programmet_f=F6r_m=F6te_4?= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:06:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm References: <38725FC9-9F60-4375-8B37-85539ED58B8E@servern.info> Message-Id: <46B61728-28B1-4980-A2B8-66C2EA77F1A5@servern.info> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:06:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 10 Oct 2010 17:06:29 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0789757399==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0789757399== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--821664122; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 --Apple-Mail-6--821664122 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Visstfan, jag gl=F6mde maila och tala om att jag bokat nederv=E5ningen. Gjorde det i tisdags ;) Vi b=F6r f=E5 plats d=E4r. -- Klas 10 okt 2010 kl. 15.10 skrev Daniel Stenberg: > On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, Klas Meder Boqvist wrote: >=20 >> Jag f=F6rsl=E5r, som alltid, Saddle and Sabre p=E5 tegn=E9gatan, det = blir en liten promenad, men det =E4r v=E4rt det. >=20 > Okej l=E5ter ju schysst. Kan du hj=E4lpa oss med bokningen? >=20 > Vi har just nu 45 stycken "ja", 6 stycken "kanske", n=E5gra som inte = sagt ja eller nej plus att det ju fortfarande =E4r drygt tv=E5 veckor = kvar s=E5 lite fler anm=E4lningar kanske kommer. >=20 > F=F6r =F6vrigt har vi nu n=E5tt 81 anm=E4lningar till evenemanget. >=20 > --=20 >=20 > / daniel.haxx.se_______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --Apple-Mail-6--821664122 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJkTCCBEYw ggOvoAMCAQICEGb9R+PCGeToms2Z3fU6yyQwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwXzELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMx FzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5 IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA1MTAyODAwMDAwMFoXDTE1MTAyNzIzNTk1OVow 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--===============0789757399==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 11 14:42:28 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9BCgB9m019859; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:42:18 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9BCg8PH019785 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:42:09 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so1853933qwe.41 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 05:42:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=gaWfwgJIqde8G8Qg0KqctdPyB2ZHFB+d1RJjNyVgaGg=; b=SAIf3Rw179a+a6p/ozD910NEoxhoNDT1bsJR0ezfxuhikOGWpX3kbBxfdWYC2+Xyc3 fn0YZ+xCfRFLTA+Gt9bIhjqEpU9ep/XvBoKUJ5Sv0zFpFySJMOdC+V2VY0s2m2gXlyPH 2OIxs2FQE5wnRIAxFBNfWRrha5MCedydrg2vU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=O+AMN/zStxn2mCZ/Vzetzunj74OI4bjJcPmAKxuvvDygDqEqpyaj/2YrQU0S6HGEcY wt9M5v5G3VPZWAPor4Y2Oz7NcNEuoGPMRbBwHh2FTe9UOox+7Bm/aX7xSxb7PIcI8WGo q3NvPNWrNW3Z8Aj2BQ1K/kUQjYUUzAdjtcUFA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.229.9 with SMTP id jg9mr5024632qcb.272.1286800920301; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 05:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.246.136 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 05:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:42:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jason_Ayers_=26_Julian_Fitzell_p=E5_Agical_GeekNight_=233?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?2?= From: Sven Johansson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:42:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:42:09 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0042172423==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0042172423== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630f7d3c04f48049256afd4 --00163630f7d3c04f48049256afd4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hej, Jag t=E4nkte att detta kunde vara intressant f=F6r flera p=E5 listan, bland= annat givet f=F6rtjusningen i Smalltalk som nyligen uttryckts... Se vidarebefordrat meddelande nedan. /Sven --=20 Sven Johansson Phone: +46704966945 Twitter: @svjson ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ola Ellnestam Date: 2010/10/11 Subject: [agical] Agical GeekNight #32 To: agical@googlegroups.com Hola, V=E4lkommen p=E5 GeekNight hos Agical m=E5ndag den 18/10 fr=E5n kl. 18:00. Workshopen startar kl. 18.30 Syftet med GeekNighten =E4r att umg=E5s, skapa kontakter och prata om intressanta =E4mnen. Alla =E4r v=E4lkomna; eftersom platserna =E4r begr=E4n= sade =E4r det =E4r f=F6rst till kvarn som g=E4ller! =C4mne: Bli en varg p=E5 v=E5r n=E4sta GeekNight! Agical har bjudit in Jason Ayers and Julian Fitzell, b=E5da tv=E5 tungvikta= re inom Smalltalkv=E4rlden, f=F6r att k=F6ra sin popul=E4ra =93wolf pack programming=94-session: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2010/Talks/Wolf-pack-programming M=E5let =E4r att utforska huruvida det g=E5r att jobba n=E4rmare varandra = =E4n parprogrammering. Vad h=E4nder om alla redigerar i en och samma kodbas, samtidigt. Ingen tidigare erfarenhet av Smalltalk beh=F6vs men det =E4r en f=F6rdel om du kan programmera. F=F6r att f=E5 den r=E4tta k=E4nslan bjuder Agical p=E5 pizza och cola. Anm=E4l dig snarast till geeknight@agical.se och uppge eventuella Pizza-preferenser. Om du vill ta med en kompis eller kollega g=E5r det bra. Kom bara ih=E5g at= t f=F6ranm=E4la s=E5 ingen beh=F6ver bli utan mat. Adress: V=E4sterl=E5nggatan 79 2tr Kod: 0801 Varmt v=E4lkomna =F6nskar vi p=E5 Agical --=20 --------------------------------------------------------- Ola Ellnestam Agical AB V=E4sterl=E5nggatan 79, 2 tr 111 29 Stockholm, SWEDEN Mobile: +46-708-754000 E-mail: ola.ellnestam@agical.se Blog: http://ellnestam.wordpress.com Twitter: ellnestam --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Agical Announcements" group. To post to this group, send email to agical@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to agical+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com = . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/agical?hl=3Den. --00163630f7d3c04f48049256afd4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hej,

Jag t=E4nkte att detta kunde vara intressant f=F6r flera p=E5 l= istan, bland annat givet f=F6rtjusningen i Smalltalk som
nyligen uttryc= kts... Se vidarebefordrat meddelande nedan.

/Sven

--
Sven= Johansson
Phone: +46704966945
Twitter: @svjson

-= --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ola Ellnestam <ola.ellnestam@agical.se>
Date: 2010/10/11
Subject: [agical] Agical GeekNight #32
To: agical@googlegroups.com


= Hola,

V=E4lkommen p=E5 GeekNight hos Agical m=E5ndag den 18/10 fr=E5n kl. 18:00.<= br>
Workshopen startar kl. 18.30

Syftet med GeekNighten =E4r att umg=E5s, skapa kontakter och prata om
intressanta =E4mnen. Alla =E4r v=E4lkomna; eftersom platserna =E4r begr=E4n= sade =E4r
det =E4r f=F6rst till kvarn som g=E4ller!

=C4mne: Bli en varg p=E5 v=E5r n=E4sta GeekNight!

Agical har bjudit in Jason Ayers and Julian Fitzell, b=E5da tv=E5 tungvikta= re inom Smalltalkv=E4rlden, f=F6r att k=F6ra sin popul=E4ra =93wolf pack pr= ogramming=94-session:

http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/201= 0/Talks/Wolf-pack-programming

M=E5let =E4r att utforska huruvida det g=E5r att jobba n=E4rmare varandra = =E4n parprogrammering. Vad h=E4nder om alla redigerar i en och samma kodbas= , samtidigt. Ingen tidigare erfarenhet av Smalltalk beh=F6vs men det =E4r e= n f=F6rdel om du kan programmera.

F=F6r att f=E5 den r=E4tta k=E4nslan bjuder Agical p=E5 pizza och cola.

Anm=E4l dig snarast till geeknight@agical.se och uppge eventuella
Pizza-preferenser.

Om du vill ta med en kompis eller kollega g=E5r det bra. Kom bara ih=E5g at= t
f=F6ranm=E4la s=E5 ingen beh=F6ver bli utan mat.

Adress: V=E4sterl=E5nggatan 79 2tr
Kod: 0801

Varmt v=E4lkomna =F6nskar vi p=E5 Agical


--
---------------------------------------------------------
Ola Ellnestam
Agical AB
V=E4sterl=E5nggatan 79, 2 tr
111 29 Stockholm, SWEDEN

Mobile: +46-708-754000
E-mail: ola.el= lnestam@agical.se
Blog: http://e= llnestam.wordpress.com
Twitter: ellnestam

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Agical Announcements" group.
To post to this group, send email to agical@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to agical+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/agica= l?hl=3Den.




--00163630f7d3c04f48049256afd4-- --===============0042172423== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0042172423==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Wed Oct 13 15:41:00 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9DDedwE031858; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:40:48 +0200 Received: from mail.sandklef.com (host53-122.etanet.se [217.151.53.122]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9DDUl77026639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:30:48 +0200 Received: from c-b451e255.149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se ([85.226.81.180] helo=[192.168.0.13]) by mail.sandklef.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P61Pp-0003C3-7O for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:30:46 +0200 Message-ID: <4CB5B47E.7000608@sandklef.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:30:38 +0200 From: Henrik Sandklef User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.12) Gecko/20100913 Iceowl/1.0b1 Icedove/3.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 85.226.81.180 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: hesa@sandklef.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sandklef.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 Subject: Nordic Free Software Award X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:14:11 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.sandklef.com) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:40:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:30:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:40:37 +0200 X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Nominera din "favorit-FOSSare" till Nordic Free Software Award. F=F6r mer = info: http://fscons.org/award /en g=F6teborgare Tidigare vinnare: * 2009 Simon Josefsson and Daniel Stenberg (more info) * 2008 Mats =D6stling (more info) * 2007 SkoleLinux (more info) _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 14 17:14:58 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9EFEc4t013113; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:14:47 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9EFEbkR013108 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:14:37 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:14:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: foss-sthlm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?M=F6te_#4_och_rabatten=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-2013106692-1287069277=:14153" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:14:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:14:37 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-2013106692-1287069277=:14153 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hejsan! Jag vill bara påminna att den Internetdagarna-rabatt som vi har för personer som anmält sig till möte #4 bara gäller fram till den 18:e, vilket är på måndag. Anmälan till möte #4 kan göras även efter den 18:e, men vi uppskattar om du anmäler dig så snart du kan så att inte antalet ändras alltför markant precis innan tillfället och därmed strular till det för oss! Vi har just nu 83 anmälningar och det är mindre än två veckor kvar! http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/mote4.html -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-2013106692-1287069277=:14153 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-2013106692-1287069277=:14153-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 17 23:54:51 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9HLsW8I019542; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:54:40 +0200 Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9HLsUht019474 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:54:31 +0200 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38so394017wyb.41 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Kq1NZp2X+ayadci1F/kd4EibqOZUeWT28fUkqhLLjm8=; b=oAngIC5mz75UN08gfGSndX9jpV6vUepsYWiY+BR28NSDLY/W6Vc/IjHNx+wMBlRlsE TWBRjUEFQE17apV9eFCbgw8oTMP2OGR3x4S73PdopXgTNz4vdSMHFi0og5nDZlZtFnHp 5yJVGLPNKb8ge8AFDsA7pNz31y3PafyXxRkSI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=VCLxPGAkQitBNtXPBvCNAegR8TlWe6IAVvENOBDOP6LVdFvUARZYFe+IkPYm8FgLQ0 2tq5S/GLFNZeMDWJSPOkCW5UaZxnpl7lhyTFpe3QFKRo+niK7qGnYfd3e5TxZZcfHEpq 0VDqyxeO+6LSCweBOSwV175Sl1UolnWGumwks= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.231.162 with SMTP id l34mr653466weq.77.1287352462447; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.87.11 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:54:22 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Argumentserie i Fria Tidningen From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:54:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:54:31 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej! Jag ska vara redakt=F6r f=F6r en argumentserie i Fria Tidningen n=E5gra vec= kor fram=F6ver. =C4mnet jag har t=E4nkt behandla =E4r fri programvara ur ett fr= ihetligt perspektiv. Jag t=E4nkte att FOSS-STHLM s=E4kert =E4r intresserade av att ber=E4tta om sin verksamhet och synas i offentligheten. Seriens g=E5ng =E4r t=E4nkt att vara b=E5de teoretisk (vad det =E4r och kom= mer ifr=E5n) och praktisk (t ex inneh=E5lla guider p=E5 hur man installerar ett fritt operativsystem, ber=E4tta om fri programvaru-grupper osv). Kontakta mig omg=E5ende om skrivintresset h=F6gg tag! :-) Jag har ungef=E4r t=E4nkt ut ett dussintals artiklar att ha med (vissa =E4r =F6vers=E4ttningar av redan existerande artiklar medan andra beh=F6ver skri= vas), jag tar g=E4rna emot f=F6rslag p=E5 fler artiklar. -- Per Andersson avtobiff@gmail.com +46 733 66 74 45 _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 18 09:25:15 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9I7Ouj7016770; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:25:05 +0200 Received: from brev.stacken.kth.se (brev.stacken.kth.se [130.237.234.84]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9I7Otop016765 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:24:55 +0200 Received: from gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se [130.237.234.160]) by brev.stacken.kth.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id o9I7OsmK010723 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:24:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id o9I7OsNv026181 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:24:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from jj@localhost) by gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id o9I7Ortq026176 for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:24:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:24:53 +0200 From: Janne Johansson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: Argumentserie i Fria Tidningen Message-ID: <20101018072453.GB22644@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:25:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:24:55 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 23:54+0200, Per Andersson (avtobiff@gmail.com) wrot= e: > Kontakta mig omg=E5ende om skrivintresset h=F6gg tag! :-) > = > Jag har ungef=E4r t=E4nkt ut ett dussintals artiklar att ha med (vissa = =E4r > =F6vers=E4ttningar av redan existerande artiklar medan andra beh=F6ver sk= rivas), > jag tar g=E4rna emot f=F6rslag p=E5 fler artiklar. Jag tycker att det kunde vara v=E4rt att ta upp aspekterna som FOSS ger och dela upp dem s=E5 att folk kan se skillnaden p=E5 de olika varianterna av "fri" (dvs Free-as-in-AOLCDs osv). Jag har h=E5llt lite korta f=F6redragningar om hur SU anv=E4nde fri kod och b=F6rjade med aspekterna: 1. Gratis (som direkt kostnad) 2. =D6ppet (s=E5 man kan se, l=E4ra och laga) 3. Fritt (som i "deploya i tusen kopior om du vill, s=E4lj och bli rik, f=E5 b=E4sta versionen och inte Home-unpremium") plus lite exempel p=E5 hur saker kan vara =F6ppna utan att vara gratis, eller gratis utan att vara fritt, s=E5 att folk l=E4ttare inser varf=F6r en del av oss =E4r s=E5 envisa med att det =E4r b=E4st om det =E4r b=E5de frit= t, gratis och =F6ppet samtidigt. -- = "Backwards compatible" means: "if it isn't backwards, it's not compatible." _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 18 12:19:40 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9IAJO1n020770; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:19:31 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9IAJMv8020753 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:19:23 +0200 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15so169513wwe.11 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 03:19:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ns33KgzFzfA+S64IiQRacZHXTI7ktwlpLLPQYW1I6zw=; b=T9UnaUeex1+VY+1zeoylokpbrs9SLL+VovBF3L/enKx/LEXq4ahJnJkeljBDbfkvHb 0IVa9AjBqvMXnAUIyyPt9qAgY6MSb7RCz2mx6puMe0HzR1YCyy0HCXmEyoZZ2aKWPr7q nWFRPhxb74cmn3RAN+E+0QzPOimNNahww5hFw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MxQgue2Swq6NlQxYQk+pG0kOkFbur4oZfnGv6hpgR1LGyTGJp1Lf1xgO4eiWPof2WI IuBrNIqmKjcStJIzw1voMCrCpZDnZY+kmqLnRsiiqKd7a7qC6zc77TrT2LvcjGkcwFTQ ScCBQBVW4SS2DJ6WPu1H3WEniLQlL/y/nuh/Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.73.133 with SMTP id v5mr4369328wed.21.1287397156587; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 03:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.86.67 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 03:19:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101018072453.GB22644@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> References: <20101018072453.GB22644@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:19:16 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Argumentserie i Fria Tidningen From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:19:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:19:23 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej! 2010/10/18 Janne Johansson : > On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 23:54+0200, Per Andersson (avtobiff@gmail.com) wr= ote: >> Kontakta mig omg=E5ende om skrivintresset h=F6gg tag! :-) >> >> Jag har ungef=E4r t=E4nkt ut ett dussintals artiklar att ha med (vissa = =E4r >> =F6vers=E4ttningar av redan existerande artiklar medan andra beh=F6ver s= krivas), >> jag tar g=E4rna emot f=F6rslag p=E5 fler artiklar. > > Jag tycker att det kunde vara v=E4rt att ta upp aspekterna som FOSS ger > och dela upp dem s=E5 att folk kan se skillnaden p=E5 de olika varianterna > av "fri" (dvs Free-as-in-AOLCDs osv). Menar du skillnaden mellan gratis och fri? > Jag har h=E5llt lite korta f=F6redragningar om hur SU anv=E4nde fri kod o= ch > b=F6rjade med aspekterna: > > 1. Gratis (som direkt kostnad) > 2. =D6ppet (s=E5 man kan se, l=E4ra och laga) > 3. Fritt (som i "deploya i tusen kopior om du vill, s=E4lj och bli rik, > f=E5 b=E4sta versionen och inte Home-unpremium") > > plus lite exempel p=E5 hur saker kan vara =F6ppna utan att vara gratis, > eller gratis utan att vara fritt, s=E5 att folk l=E4ttare inser varf=F6r = en > del av oss =E4r s=E5 envisa med att det =E4r b=E4st om det =E4r b=E5de fr= itt, > gratis och =F6ppet samtidigt. L=E5ter som att du har material f=F6r en artikel. Intresserad av att skriva om det du n=E4mner? :-) -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 18 21:50:15 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9IJntNY012973; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:50:04 +0200 Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9IJnr5n012929 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:49:53 +0200 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38so1787907wyb.41 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:49:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=y3eohDrpLorOaSXrAnG6i8RcgqetR4rjsuQv/ilel/4=; b=hej+VjD+X+bOfltPo6cT38s2ac7aGgcxz4WyWmomnj1yv5Bha87ixKH0mbWGGj7pQQ ZjVlhqkW/eIy51UDFgIPNNaQo6DYZBdDIJZ02Q7w9slxVJGt7Yoerh1wJaMsBzvNEPMT vc/0Y9wfHHvWwSV7I/dURDQvbc7kTWwkHee30= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GzdKRq5bvnzSVL77RCNZx4wqFXtIWFQ2MJJUxwyE20DZLASGcVeDSuVw801Vw4U7aV bbpLjd1WbC7/qLFYYfnJmEQG+mj/SkyuXcqhlQLwhWNEAmHBqmz09q0ELPska8686Knv KJ7LdGxL5sPhyGDUkf45o32IOARuiQBqJ6oBo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.155.139 with SMTP id s11mr5038832wbw.221.1287431383687; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.86.67 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:49:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <46330.212.28.217.21.1287389634.squirrel@www.orski.se> <47221.212.28.217.21.1287400609.squirrel@www.orski.se> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:49:43 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Argumentserie i Fria Tidningen From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:50:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:49:54 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej igen! Visst har jag sett p=E5 listan att det var folk som diskuterat fri programvara i skolan? Monika tipsade om http://fritis.se/ . Finns det fler s=E5dana grupperingar i Sverige, =E4ven med mer generellt fokus p=E5 offentlig verksamhet? V=E4nligen, Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Wed Oct 20 11:34:03 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9K9Xe3O019373; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:50 +0200 Received: from s87.loopia.se (s87.loopia.se [194.9.95.115]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9K9Xdcb019350 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:39 +0200 Received: from s57.loopia.se (s34.loopia.se [194.9.94.70]) by s87.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1702F3F75BC for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 16392 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2010 09:32:59 -0000 Received: from h57n3c1o255.bredband.skanova.com (HELO jca-studio.localnet) (jostein@vait.se@[81.225.10.57]) (envelope-sender ) by s57.loopia.se (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Oct 2010 09:32:59 -0000 From: "Jostein Chr. Andersen" Organization: Vaxholm IT To: "FOSS-folk i Stockholm" Subject: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?q?f=F6r_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:00 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.35-22-generic; KDE/4.5.1; x86_64; ; ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:39 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se "Inget intresse f=F6r Linux p=E5 kontorsdatorn" st=E5r det som en rubrik p= =E5 CS = hemsida i dag. De skriver vidare att "Linux bara =E4r en succ=E9 p=E5 servrar och inte p= =E5 kontoret" = - inget =E4r nytt med det, men jag f=E5r lite tankar och funderingar runt d= etta. = Ser ocks=E5 att de skriver i rubriken att "Hoppet st=E5r nu till Android" -= den = var ny, fast s=E4rskilt seri=F6st =E4r det inte. Nu =E4r nog s=E5 att CS skrivar med lite stora och enkla rubriker i periode= r, och = "Hoppet st=E5r nu till Android" passar bra in i den bilden. Android som = kontorsmil=F6? Gl=F6m det! =C5tminstone som det ser ut nu. Men CS =E4r inte den enda som ger m=E4rkliga signaler i denna sammanh=E4ng:= Efter en = liten resa runt p=E5 N=E4tet var jag kollade n=E5gra av de stora Open Sourc= e-bolagen = i Sverige ser det inte ens ut som att branschen sj=E4lv vet att det finns = helhetsl=F6sningar baserad =D6ppna och fria alternativ f=F6r kontoret. Blan= d oss = n=F6rdar pratas det mycket om programmeringsspr=E5k i Linux, men hur ofta h= =F6rs det = om "OpenOffice.org Basic" n=E4r en stackare fr=E5gar om viktiga spr=E5k man= ska l=E4ra = sig i Open Source-v=E4rlden? -Knappast n=E5n g=E5ng, och det p=E5 trots av = att VBA:s = anv=E4ndning i MS Office per automatik g=F6r Basic till en av v=E4rlden vik= tigaste = programmeringsspr=E5k och d=E4rmed potentiellt en av viktigaste i Open Sour= ce- v=E4rlden. = Vad ser en beslutsfattare n=E4r hon eller han fyrar upp webbl=E4saren och g= =E5r in = p=E5 tex www.microsoft.se eller n=E5gon av deras partners? H=E4r lyser det = kontor = och totall=F6sningar l=E5ng v=E4g! Det beh=F6vs inte s=E5 mycket fantasi f= =F6r att f=F6rst=E5 = att som en konsekvens av det h=E4r installeras MS Windows per automatik och= att = kunden =E4r troligvis n=F6jd med det. Ett bolag ber=E4ttar att de har "kundanpassade l=F6sningar baserade p=E5 Op= en = Source-mjukvara som exvis Linux och *BSD". Vad s=E4ger det till en potentie= ll = kunde som inte redan kan Linux eller *BSD? Absolut inget! Inget fel med det = bolaget, de vill kanske bara ha kunder som redan =E4r insatt i det h=E4r = =E4mnet, = men jag vill p=E5st=E5 det =E4r ganska typisk f=F6r oss som sysslar med det= h=E4r - = stora som sm=E5. Det m=E5ste d=E5 vara fler som vill nya kunder som inte re= dan kan = sin *NIX? :-) Android =E4r ett bra exempel p=E5 hur det kan g=F6ras: Kunden k=F6per helt = enkelt en = telefon som =E4r anv=E4ndarv=E4nlig och till en sansad pris. Att det ligger= Linux i = b=E5tten vet bara de som =E4r speciellt intresserade. S=E5 vad vill man ha = p=E5 = kontoret? Det vet vi alla: Surfa, mail, skriva brev, anv=E4nda aff=E4rssyst= emet = (om det finns d=E4r) och s=E5 vidare. Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 kontorsdato= rn" = beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r medveten om att det finns = alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv ger inget signal om det om man = ser = fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) sida. Att "Vi anv=E4nder Open Source" och s= =E5dana = meningar s=E4ger inget till organisationen som har ett helt annat perspekti= v n=E4r = det g=E4ller IT och som mest sannolikt =F6nskar ett tydligt och kort svar p= =E5 denna = fr=E5gan utan att m=E5ste utbilda sig: What's in it for me? Jostein _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Wed Oct 20 12:01:53 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KA1kVO004161; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:01:48 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KA1i2x004061 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:01:45 +0200 Received: by wwb39 with SMTP id 39so2520774wwb.11 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:01:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vumCHBXt6e30ma5tpBC5CvPmlDPJwwU1VaXgErFTp+s=; b=O6w6l44fMTZfdSCgvpSqpSdgRoJe0nI7i56EyorD2jQVZ5XxCRfDDjz9QXIZ8B6L1S aYiGu3GL+04jxNH7LLz/UvI1bd+zAb0PE5k51Q2ysMjfZv61Geg2CqSQNc1UkziehUSg 3q6RAJIwCWLD1GF4XYekV7hyCn5ecCJLKUqxU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=mPcpucDIqhq2KWslPDHUrMRo1llPZkvvekQInF29kHsfFk+6+Qyk44S7/XaSW1dB87 9T8jC0mzBj+tMsNGxhwFxIDkPUi+zy9Ie9XU2rknHmQqLuveBTcwzZuKpISTlkl3cr2g IOso7O57WX2Y2kCwxbIGBYDfK4CmEDH1Rn0+Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.17.9 with SMTP id i9mr7894673wei.80.1287568897725; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 03:01:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:01:37 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Argumentserie i Fria Tidningen From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:01:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:01:45 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej igen! Skrivsugna m=E4nniskor fr=E5n listan har kontakt mig off-list, det =E4r j= =E4ttekul! Ingen har velat skriva om sj=E4lva FOSS-STHLM dock. Det =E4r ju ett j=E4tte= bra tillf=E4lle att sprida ordet om FOSS-STHLM och v=E5r verksamhet. Kontakta mig omg=E5ende om skrivargl=F6den b=F6rjade brinna! V=E4nligen, Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Wed Oct 20 13:42:16 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KBfvCH008915; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:42:03 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KBfugD008885 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:41:56 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:41:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= In-Reply-To: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Message-ID: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-1363524087-1287568850=:20307" Content-ID: X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:42:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:41:56 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-1363524087-1287568850=:20307 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-15; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: > Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux på kontorsdatorn" > beror på att världen i sin almenhet inte är medveten om att det finns > alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" själv ger inget signal om det om man ser > från kundens (användarens) sida. Jag håller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller inget monetärt incitament att försöka prångla på våra lösningar på andra. Vad spelar det mig för roll om folk på mitt jobb använder Linux eller inte på "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (på kort eller ens medellång tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet istället mest bara att bli "support" för en binge folk som ställer uppstudsiga frågor när grejer inte funkar exakt som de gjorde på [proroprietärt system]. De som har ett incitament för att driva på konvertingar av detta slaget är de som säljer något för att tjäna pengar på konverertingar. De som säljer kurser eller någon typ av office-support. Vad jag vet har vi inte så många såna bolag. Eller helt enkelt från användar-sidan, att de som köper in OS och office- paket tröttnar på att bli skinnade. Tyvärr tror jag att det är en väldigt långsam process som bromsas väldigt mycket av de stora kommersiella bolagen som står bakom de proprietära lösningarna där det ju finns väldigt mycket pengar involverat. Och folk som redan är inkörda på MS-grejor och inte vill byta. Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte är "skrivbordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, settopboxar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens Sverige så finns det nog i det närmaste redan minst en Linux-installation i närheten av varje invånare, bara att de flesta är totalt omedvetna om det. Och jag ser ingen minskning av Linux även framöver. Dessutom: IDG är en helt bedrövlig inrättning som vi mår bättre av att ignorera. Att de skriver strunt hör ju mer till vanligheten än tvärtom så detta är ju inte direkt en överraskning. "Hoppet står till Android" i en artikel om Linux på skrivbordet är ju så fånigt att jag inte vet vad jag ska säga. -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-1363524087-1287568850=:20307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-1363524087-1287568850=:20307-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Wed Oct 20 21:28:58 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KJSbo3003652; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:28:47 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KJSY8g003553 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:28:35 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so3026439qwe.41 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:28:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=IkDxSZzjglGVP9Oi0rsnvwH0yDBkV5dRX9cGCY6Zv80=; b=SFewbsGLpy2HDMYf6DavJVZ/BvFra6M2a6jdtA1RaitVKcHJdOPuItbs59udCix3C7 dMTBz8PMCI6yMnrEc4h1OvIZBJlG6Gt9TryD8QuCGgnW6WCZfrcsr2x0IS0pRKa0maZc MRMpp2F9GPEKzOx+9WuCQHUXBdzE7zkBN1XWk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Ztz7ykDDDi13/TLPwjPCEzGCxCkNhYoTOistJ+2WcqkUUuUtDdH9P9nL9lqb4PZO1G BckwveWN3MckvBuTvwh/Ik0BYCvzhCWHSTsUMG+efAeKIebGTFgTEltfmYaM0hb8qAZD 2nCA4/OHIHXdHM/P5fv0eu5wyMygLOIEiBRCM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.177.136 with SMTP id bi8mr5266820qab.322.1287602902224; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:28:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:28:22 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:28:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:28:35 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1497865374==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============1497865374== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf302efc7e994e1c04931169f0 --20cf302efc7e994e1c04931169f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable F=F6r =F6vrigt verkar f=F6ljande vara ursprungsartikeln, publicerad tre dag= ar tidigare: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_drea= m_is_dead.html Den 20 oktober 2010 13:41 skrev Daniel Stenberg : > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: > > Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 >> kontorsdatorn" beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r medvete= n om att >> det finns alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv ger inget signal o= m det >> om man ser fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) sida. >> > > Jag h=E5ller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller inget > monet=E4rt > incitament att f=F6rs=F6ka pr=E5ngla p=E5 v=E5ra l=F6sningar p=E5 andra. = Vad spelar det > mig f=F6r roll om folk p=E5 mitt jobb anv=E4nder Linux eller inte p=E5 > "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (p=E5 kort eller ens medel= l=E5ng > tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet ist=E4llet mest bara att bli "sup= port" > f=F6r en binge folk som st=E4ller uppstudsiga fr=E5gor n=E4r grejer inte = funkar > exakt som de gjorde p=E5 [proropriet=E4rt system]. > > De som har ett incitament f=F6r att driva p=E5 konvertingar av detta slag= et =E4r > de som s=E4ljer n=E5got f=F6r att tj=E4na pengar p=E5 konverertingar. De = som s=E4ljer > kurser eller n=E5gon typ av office-support. Vad jag vet har vi inte s=E5 = m=E5nga > s=E5na bolag. > > Eller helt enkelt fr=E5n anv=E4ndar-sidan, att de som k=F6per in OS och o= ffice- > paket tr=F6ttnar p=E5 att bli skinnade. Tyv=E4rr tror jag att det =E4r en= v=E4ldigt > l=E5ngsam process som bromsas v=E4ldigt mycket av de stora kommersiella b= olagen > som st=E5r bakom de propriet=E4ra l=F6sningarna d=E4r det ju finns v=E4ld= igt mycket > pengar involverat. Och folk som redan =E4r ink=F6rda p=E5 MS-grejor och i= nte vill > byta. > > Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte =E4r > "skrivbordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, > settopboxar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens Sverige= s=E5 > finns det nog i det n=E4rmaste redan minst en Linux-installation i n=E4rh= eten av > varje inv=E5nare, bara att de flesta =E4r totalt omedvetna om det. Och ja= g ser > ingen minskning av Linux =E4ven fram=F6ver. > > Dessutom: IDG =E4r en helt bedr=F6vlig inr=E4ttning som vi m=E5r b=E4ttre= av att > ignorera. Att de skriver strunt h=F6r ju mer till vanligheten =E4n tv=E4r= tom s=E5 > detta =E4r ju inte direkt en =F6verraskning. "Hoppet st=E5r till Android"= i en > artikel om Linux p=E5 skrivbordet =E4r ju s=E5 f=E5nigt att jag inte vet = vad jag ska > s=E4ga. > > -- > > / daniel.haxx.se > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --20cf302efc7e994e1c04931169f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


F=F6r =F6vrigt verkar f=F6ljande vara ursprungsart= ikeln, publicerad tre dagar tidigare: http://www= .pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.= html



Den 20 oktober 2010 13:41 skrev Dani= el Stenberg <daniel@= haxx.se>:
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:

Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 kontor= sdatorn" beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r medveten om= att det finns alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv ger in= get signal om det om man ser fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) sida.

Jag h=E5ller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller = inget monet=E4rt
incitament att f=F6rs=F6ka pr=E5ngla p=E5 v=E5ra l=F6sningar p=E5 andra. Va= d spelar det mig f=F6r roll om folk p=E5 mitt jobb anv=E4nder Linux eller i= nte p=E5 "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (p=E5 kor= t eller ens medell=E5ng tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet ist=E4llet = mest bara att bli "support" f=F6r en binge folk som st=E4ller upp= studsiga fr=E5gor n=E4r grejer inte funkar exakt som de gjorde p=E5 [prorop= riet=E4rt system].

De som har ett incitament f=F6r att driva p=E5 konvertingar av detta slaget= =E4r de som s=E4ljer n=E5got f=F6r att tj=E4na pengar p=E5 konverertingar.= De som s=E4ljer kurser eller n=E5gon typ av office-support. Vad jag vet ha= r vi inte s=E5 m=E5nga s=E5na bolag.

Eller helt enkelt fr=E5n anv=E4ndar-sidan, att de som k=F6per in OS och off= ice- paket tr=F6ttnar p=E5 att bli skinnade. Tyv=E4rr tror jag att det =E4r= en v=E4ldigt l=E5ngsam process som bromsas v=E4ldigt mycket av de stora ko= mmersiella bolagen som st=E5r bakom de propriet=E4ra l=F6sningarna d=E4r de= t ju finns v=E4ldigt mycket pengar involverat. Och folk som redan =E4r ink= =F6rda p=E5 MS-grejor och inte vill byta.

Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte =E4r "skriv= bordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, settopbox= ar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens Sverige s=E5 finns= det nog i det n=E4rmaste redan minst en Linux-installation i n=E4rheten av= varje inv=E5nare, bara att de flesta =E4r totalt omedvetna om det. Och jag= ser ingen minskning av Linux =E4ven fram=F6ver.

Dessutom: IDG =E4r en helt bedr=F6vlig inr=E4ttning som vi m=E5r b=E4ttre a= v att ignorera. Att de skriver strunt h=F6r ju mer till vanligheten =E4n tv= =E4rtom s=E5 detta =E4r ju inte direkt en =F6verraskning. "Hoppet st= =E5r till Android" i en artikel om Linux p=E5 skrivbordet =E4r ju s=E5= f=E5nigt att jag inte vet vad jag ska s=E4ga.

--

=A0/ daniel.haxx.se=
_______________________________________________
http://foss-sthlm.= haxx.se/
http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm




--
Med v=E4nlig h=E4ls= ning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--20cf302efc7e994e1c04931169f0-- --===============1497865374== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============1497865374==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 00:05:05 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KM4l8A018911; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:04:53 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9KM4i72018889 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:04:45 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197F7D2378 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:04:39 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from :mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id; s=sasl; bh=bQOLdkNws8JfRE5ZhF6UA0nTieE=; b= ZLz3+MF4cp9/+ESos/uF9YCm8Ux/AEUX6IHYMiN+kbMNUXj/1xQ7Md7GhOlYyn93 L0oAYqQ5u/4EoeD192j8DkrxjBiRr9t47/WIPqwCueiilvYF+Z4E8RwwyJl+iGdS kGjZglPkQ/HerEz77Eild5CMq1qtQC5oC6J7sBci3cc= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CD1D2377 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.18.103.58] (unknown [12.27.6.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 68695D2376 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:04:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremiah Foster Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CS:_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsda?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?torn?= Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:04:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 0886D4FC-DC96-11DF-BDFE-89B3016DD5F0-97416961!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:04:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:04:45 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1319996277==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============1319996277== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8-67432829 --Apple-Mail-8-67432829 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Oct 20, 2010, at 15:28, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: >=20 >=20 > F=F6r =F6vrigt verkar f=F6ljande vara ursprungsartikeln, publicerad = tre dagar tidigare: = http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dre= am_is_dead.html Utter nonsense. I wouldn't trust a word written by PCWorld - they are a = notorious publisher of marketing text, as is IDG.=20 Do you really think Intel, who is investing more that 100 million US in = MeeGo thinks that Linux is dead on the netbook? On the mobile phone? In = the car? What about Nokia? They sell netbooks now, don't you think = you'll see MeeGo on them eventually? Nokia has a billion customers - not = exactly a 'dead' market.=20 Microsoft's monopoly is impossible to defend for the simple reason that = as hardware costs come down, the software license costs begin to eat = into the profit margin of the hardware manufacturer. If your netbook = costs 2,000 SEK and the software license costs 1,000 SEK to Acer - where = is the profit going? To Acer? Or to Microsoft?=20 If you're Acer what do you do? Obviously you try push that license cost = down and that is precisely what happened with Windows XP; it was end of = life, but the netbook manufacturers _forced_ Microsoft to make it = available longer, in turn they put it on their netbooks. But even XP = development is not sustainable, nor profitable.=20 All this marketing FUD you hear about Linux is merely positioning and = branding because Microsoft is under direct assault, and their market is = crumbling. Their stock price has been flat for years now, they cannot = expand into other markets like the embedded space, and they have lost = the server business. The only Microsoft division that makes money is = XBox aside from the Windows / Office franchises. Ray Ozzie has left, key = Vice Presidents have been fired, Apple has passed them in market = capitalization. All this points to the erosion of the Microsoft business = model and the last stronghold - the desktop - is being nibbled at by = Ubuntu, MeeGo, and others.=20 Yeah, more people use Windows on the Desktop, but that is just = temporary. :-) Jeremiah >=20 >=20 >=20 > Den 20 oktober 2010 13:41 skrev Daniel Stenberg : > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: >=20 > Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 = kontorsdatorn" beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r = medveten om att det finns alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv = ger inget signal om det om man ser fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) sida. >=20 > Jag h=E5ller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller inget = monet=E4rt > incitament att f=F6rs=F6ka pr=E5ngla p=E5 v=E5ra l=F6sningar p=E5 = andra. Vad spelar det mig f=F6r roll om folk p=E5 mitt jobb anv=E4nder = Linux eller inte p=E5 "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (p=E5= kort eller ens medell=E5ng tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet = ist=E4llet mest bara att bli "support" f=F6r en binge folk som st=E4ller = uppstudsiga fr=E5gor n=E4r grejer inte funkar exakt som de gjorde p=E5 = [proropriet=E4rt system]. >=20 > De som har ett incitament f=F6r att driva p=E5 konvertingar av detta = slaget =E4r de som s=E4ljer n=E5got f=F6r att tj=E4na pengar p=E5 = konverertingar. De som s=E4ljer kurser eller n=E5gon typ av = office-support. Vad jag vet har vi inte s=E5 m=E5nga s=E5na bolag. >=20 > Eller helt enkelt fr=E5n anv=E4ndar-sidan, att de som k=F6per in OS = och office- paket tr=F6ttnar p=E5 att bli skinnade. Tyv=E4rr tror jag = att det =E4r en v=E4ldigt l=E5ngsam process som bromsas v=E4ldigt mycket = av de stora kommersiella bolagen som st=E5r bakom de propriet=E4ra = l=F6sningarna d=E4r det ju finns v=E4ldigt mycket pengar involverat. Och = folk som redan =E4r ink=F6rda p=E5 MS-grejor och inte vill byta. >=20 > Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte =E4r = "skrivbordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, = settopboxar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens = Sverige s=E5 finns det nog i det n=E4rmaste redan minst en = Linux-installation i n=E4rheten av varje inv=E5nare, bara att de flesta = =E4r totalt omedvetna om det. Och jag ser ingen minskning av Linux =E4ven = fram=F6ver. >=20 > Dessutom: IDG =E4r en helt bedr=F6vlig inr=E4ttning som vi m=E5r = b=E4ttre av att ignorera. Att de skriver strunt h=F6r ju mer till = vanligheten =E4n tv=E4rtom s=E5 detta =E4r ju inte direkt en = =F6verraskning. "Hoppet st=E5r till Android" i en artikel om Linux p=E5 = skrivbordet =E4r ju s=E5 f=E5nigt att jag inte vet vad jag ska s=E4ga. >=20 > --=20 >=20 > / daniel.haxx.se > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, > Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --Apple-Mail-8-67432829 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1


F=F6r =F6vrigt verkar f=F6ljande = vara ursprungsartikeln, publicerad tre dagar tidigare: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207= 999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html
Utter nonsense. I wouldn't trust a word written by PCWorld = - they are a notorious publisher of marketing text, as is = IDG. 

Do you really think Intel, who is = investing more that 100 million US in MeeGo thinks that Linux is dead on = the netbook? On the mobile phone? In the car? What about Nokia? They = sell netbooks now, don't you think you'll see MeeGo on them eventually? = Nokia has a billion customers - not exactly a 'dead' = market. 

Microsoft's monopoly is = impossible to defend for the simple reason that as hardware costs come = down, the software license costs begin to eat into the profit margin of = the hardware manufacturer. If your netbook costs 2,000 SEK and the = software license costs 1,000 SEK to Acer - where is the profit going? To = Acer? Or to Microsoft? 

If you're Acer = what do you do? Obviously you try push that license cost down and that = is precisely what happened with Windows XP; it was end of life, but the = netbook manufacturers _forced_ Microsoft to make it available longer, in = turn they put it on their netbooks. But even XP development is not = sustainable, nor profitable. 

All this = marketing FUD you hear about Linux is merely positioning and branding = because Microsoft is under direct assault, and their market is = crumbling. Their stock price has been flat for years now, they cannot = expand into other markets like the embedded space, and they have lost = the server business. The only Microsoft division that makes money is = XBox aside from the Windows / Office franchises. Ray Ozzie has left, key = Vice Presidents have been fired, Apple has passed them in market = capitalization. All this points to the erosion of the Microsoft business = model and the last stronghold - the desktop - is being nibbled at by = Ubuntu, MeeGo, and others. 

Yeah, more = people use Windows on the Desktop, but that is just temporary. = :-)

Jeremiah




Den 20 oktober 2010 13:41 skrev = Daniel Stenberg <daniel@haxx.se>:
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:

Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 = kontorsdatorn" beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r = medveten om att det finns alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv = ger inget signal om det om man ser fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) = sida.

Jag h=E5ller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller inget = monet=E4rt
incitament att f=F6rs=F6ka pr=E5ngla p=E5 v=E5ra l=F6sningar p=E5 andra. = Vad spelar det mig f=F6r roll om folk p=E5 mitt jobb anv=E4nder Linux = eller inte p=E5 "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (p=E5 = kort eller ens medell=E5ng tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet = ist=E4llet mest bara att bli "support" f=F6r en binge folk som st=E4ller = uppstudsiga fr=E5gor n=E4r grejer inte funkar exakt som de gjorde p=E5 = [proropriet=E4rt system].

De som har ett incitament f=F6r att driva p=E5 konvertingar av detta = slaget =E4r de som s=E4ljer n=E5got f=F6r att tj=E4na pengar p=E5 = konverertingar. De som s=E4ljer kurser eller n=E5gon typ av = office-support. Vad jag vet har vi inte s=E5 m=E5nga s=E5na bolag.

Eller helt enkelt fr=E5n anv=E4ndar-sidan, att de som k=F6per in OS och = office- paket tr=F6ttnar p=E5 att bli skinnade. Tyv=E4rr tror jag att = det =E4r en v=E4ldigt l=E5ngsam process som bromsas v=E4ldigt mycket av = de stora kommersiella bolagen som st=E5r bakom de propriet=E4ra = l=F6sningarna d=E4r det ju finns v=E4ldigt mycket pengar involverat. Och = folk som redan =E4r ink=F6rda p=E5 MS-grejor och inte vill byta.

Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte =E4r = "skrivbordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, = settopboxar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens = Sverige s=E5 finns det nog i det n=E4rmaste redan minst en = Linux-installation i n=E4rheten av varje inv=E5nare, bara att de flesta = =E4r totalt omedvetna om det. Och jag ser ingen minskning av Linux =E4ven = fram=F6ver.

Dessutom: IDG =E4r en helt bedr=F6vlig inr=E4ttning som vi m=E5r b=E4ttre = av att ignorera. Att de skriver strunt h=F6r ju mer till vanligheten =E4n = tv=E4rtom s=E5 detta =E4r ju inte direkt en =F6verraskning. "Hoppet st=E5r= till Android" i en artikel om Linux p=E5 skrivbordet =E4r ju s=E5 = f=E5nigt att jag inte vet vad jag ska s=E4ga.

--

 / daniel.haxx.se
___________________________= ____________________
http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/
http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm<= /a>




--
Med v=E4nlig = h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
_______________________________________________
http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/
http://co= ol.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm
<= br>= --Apple-Mail-8-67432829-- --===============1319996277== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============1319996277==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 09:29:58 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9L7TZSo012370; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:29:47 +0200 Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9L7TXEv012311 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:29:33 +0200 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so2028433qyk.20 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:29:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=z94BYBpZXlRHarAcADaCNykKd1IXWayDYv1xCSH0LY8=; b=aJW97zxCiyO9pA+tpmus9+yt4XKzKSy/3TtBZjjsj9wA0alO6wca8pxjnhIWxGg30Y g2LICNw1vOCAg1becHuWCOCSoisYydulax3YFlscVwmiah6PnjL1KMIXp6BeKsCnkxDr VlMLBTNSwUso/7ixY0gfaKSpBzJD9oZJo2hTU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=asD6IHWUjRXOUojeWnj2aV3pSFoY0XI3rP6P4oYML1c997JXDN9DOajOHswRQwlsPI YI24P+Fyye8fIOUorkY2sjPL01fbeoEKpu1OzDYA6yYCYMV/4hyy5Cm786cyubkFCMg1 5fBYu4MW81dpnR9aa/mMypJ3RtV4b3KHgENPI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.213.135 with SMTP id gw7mr470270qcb.41.1287646167203; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:29:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:29:27 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:29:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:29:34 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0050764463==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0050764463== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485e8ab84647e6d04931b7c91 --001485e8ab84647e6d04931b7c91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my daily job with people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be using linux still= . If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more clients. But to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifications for your employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you have that title, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (download all ms products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of your business strategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you will have a lo= t of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people knowing MS technology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions. The circle is complete! Den 21 oktober 2010 00:04 skrev Jeremiah Foster : > > On Oct 20, 2010, at 15:28, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: > > > > F=F6r =F6vrigt verkar f=F6ljande vara ursprungsartikeln, publicerad tre d= agar > tidigare: > http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dr= eam_is_dead.html > > > Utter nonsense. I wouldn't trust a word written by PCWorld - they are a > notorious publisher of marketing text, as is IDG. > > Do you really think Intel, who is investing more that 100 million US in > MeeGo thinks that Linux is dead on the netbook? On the mobile phone? In t= he > car? What about Nokia? They sell netbooks now, don't you think you'll see > MeeGo on them eventually? Nokia has a billion customers - not exactly a > 'dead' market. > > Microsoft's monopoly is impossible to defend for the simple reason that a= s > hardware costs come down, the software license costs begin to eat into th= e > profit margin of the hardware manufacturer. If your netbook costs 2,000 S= EK > and the software license costs 1,000 SEK to Acer - where is the profit > going? To Acer? Or to Microsoft? > > If you're Acer what do you do? Obviously you try push that license cost > down and that is precisely what happened with Windows XP; it was end of > life, but the netbook manufacturers _forced_ Microsoft to make it availab= le > longer, in turn they put it on their netbooks. But even XP development is > not sustainable, nor profitable. > > All this marketing FUD you hear about Linux is merely positioning and > branding because Microsoft is under direct assault, and their market is > crumbling. Their stock price has been flat for years now, they cannot exp= and > into other markets like the embedded space, and they have lost the server > business. The only Microsoft division that makes money is XBox aside from > the Windows / Office franchises. Ray Ozzie has left, key Vice Presidents > have been fired, Apple has passed them in market capitalization. All this > points to the erosion of the Microsoft business model and the last > stronghold - the desktop - is being nibbled at by Ubuntu, MeeGo, and > others. > > Yeah, more people use Windows on the Desktop, but that is just temporary. > :-) > > Jeremiah > > > > > Den 20 oktober 2010 13:41 skrev Daniel Stenberg : > >> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote: >> >> Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 >>> kontorsdatorn" beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r medvet= en om att >>> det finns alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv ger inget signal = om det >>> om man ser fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) sida. >>> >> >> Jag h=E5ller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller inget >> monet=E4rt >> incitament att f=F6rs=F6ka pr=E5ngla p=E5 v=E5ra l=F6sningar p=E5 andra.= Vad spelar det >> mig f=F6r roll om folk p=E5 mitt jobb anv=E4nder Linux eller inte p=E5 >> "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (p=E5 kort eller ens mede= ll=E5ng >> tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet ist=E4llet mest bara att bli "su= pport" >> f=F6r en binge folk som st=E4ller uppstudsiga fr=E5gor n=E4r grejer inte= funkar >> exakt som de gjorde p=E5 [proropriet=E4rt system]. >> >> De som har ett incitament f=F6r att driva p=E5 konvertingar av detta sla= get =E4r >> de som s=E4ljer n=E5got f=F6r att tj=E4na pengar p=E5 konverertingar. De= som s=E4ljer >> kurser eller n=E5gon typ av office-support. Vad jag vet har vi inte s=E5= m=E5nga >> s=E5na bolag. >> >> Eller helt enkelt fr=E5n anv=E4ndar-sidan, att de som k=F6per in OS och = office- >> paket tr=F6ttnar p=E5 att bli skinnade. Tyv=E4rr tror jag att det =E4r e= n v=E4ldigt >> l=E5ngsam process som bromsas v=E4ldigt mycket av de stora kommersiella = bolagen >> som st=E5r bakom de propriet=E4ra l=F6sningarna d=E4r det ju finns v=E4l= digt mycket >> pengar involverat. Och folk som redan =E4r ink=F6rda p=E5 MS-grejor och = inte vill >> byta. >> >> Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte =E4r >> "skrivbordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, >> settopboxar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens Sverig= e s=E5 >> finns det nog i det n=E4rmaste redan minst en Linux-installation i n=E4r= heten av >> varje inv=E5nare, bara att de flesta =E4r totalt omedvetna om det. Och j= ag ser >> ingen minskning av Linux =E4ven fram=F6ver. >> >> Dessutom: IDG =E4r en helt bedr=F6vlig inr=E4ttning som vi m=E5r b=E4ttr= e av att >> ignorera. Att de skriver strunt h=F6r ju mer till vanligheten =E4n tv=E4= rtom s=E5 >> detta =E4r ju inte direkt en =F6verraskning. "Hoppet st=E5r till Android= " i en >> artikel om Linux p=E5 skrivbordet =E4r ju s=E5 f=E5nigt att jag inte vet= vad jag ska >> s=E4ga. >> >> -- >> >> / daniel.haxx.se >> _______________________________________________ >> http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ >> http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm >> >> > > > -- > Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, > Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --001485e8ab84647e6d04931b7c91 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my= daily job with people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd = be using linux still.

If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you = will get more clients. But to get this title, you need to get a certain num= ber of certifications for your employees from MS-licensed educational compa= nies. If you have that title, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN= subscriptions (download all ms products for a monthly fee). Given that thi= s is a part of your business strategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy c= ompanies), you will have a lot of MS software to install on your machines, = a lot of people knowing MS technology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-base= d solutions.

The circle is complete!

Den 21 oktobe= r 2010 00:04 skrev Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah@jeremiahfoster.com>:

On Oct = 20, 2010, at 15:28, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote:



F=F6r =F6vrigt verkar f=F6ljande vara urspr= ungsartikeln, publicerad tre dagar tidigare: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop= _linux_the_dream_is_dead.html

Utter nonsense. I wouldn't= trust a word written by PCWorld - they are a notorious publisher of market= ing text, as is IDG.=A0

Do you really think Intel,= who is investing more that 100 million US in MeeGo thinks that Linux is de= ad on the netbook? On the mobile phone? In the car? What about Nokia? They = sell netbooks now, don't you think you'll see MeeGo on them eventua= lly? Nokia has a billion customers - not exactly a 'dead' market.= =A0

Microsoft's monopoly is impossible to defend for th= e simple reason that as hardware costs come down, the software license cost= s begin to eat into the profit margin of the hardware manufacturer. If your= netbook costs 2,000 SEK and the software license costs 1,000 SEK to Acer -= where is the profit going? To Acer? Or to Microsoft?=A0

If you're Acer what do you do? Obviously you try pu= sh that license cost down and that is precisely what happened with Windows = XP; it was end of life, but the netbook manufacturers _forced_ Microsoft to= make it available longer, in turn they put it on their netbooks. But even = XP development is not sustainable, nor profitable.=A0

All this marketing FUD you hear about Linux is merely p= ositioning and branding because Microsoft is under direct assault, and thei= r market is crumbling. Their stock price has been flat for years now, they = cannot expand into other markets like the embedded space, and they have los= t the server business. The only Microsoft division that makes money is XBox= aside from the Windows / Office franchises. Ray Ozzie has left, key Vice P= residents have been fired, Apple has passed them in market capitalization. = All this points to the erosion of the Microsoft business model and the last= stronghold - the desktop - is being nibbled at by Ubuntu, MeeGo, and other= s.=A0

Yeah, more people use Windows on the Desktop, but that = is just temporary. :-)

Jer= emiah




Den 20 oktober 2010 13:41 skrev Dani= el Stenberg <daniel@haxx.se>:
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:

Jag tror helt enkelt att saknaden (om den finns) av "Linux p=E5 kontor= sdatorn" beror p=E5 att v=E4rlden i sin almenhet inte =E4r medveten om= att det finns alternativ. "Open Source-branschen" sj=E4lv ger in= get signal om det om man ser fr=E5n kundens (anv=E4ndarens) sida.

Jag h=E5ller med. Men vi i "Open Source-branschen" har ju heller = inget monet=E4rt
incitament att f=F6rs=F6ka pr=E5ngla p=E5 v=E5ra l=F6sningar p=E5 andra. Va= d spelar det mig f=F6r roll om folk p=E5 mitt jobb anv=E4nder Linux eller i= nte p=E5 "skrivbordet"? Jag blir inte mycket lyckligare (p=E5 kor= t eller ens medell=E5ng tid) utan riskerar med stor sannolikhet ist=E4llet = mest bara att bli "support" f=F6r en binge folk som st=E4ller upp= studsiga fr=E5gor n=E4r grejer inte funkar exakt som de gjorde p=E5 [prorop= riet=E4rt system].

De som har ett incitament f=F6r att driva p=E5 konvertingar av detta slaget= =E4r de som s=E4ljer n=E5got f=F6r att tj=E4na pengar p=E5 konverertingar.= De som s=E4ljer kurser eller n=E5gon typ av office-support. Vad jag vet ha= r vi inte s=E5 m=E5nga s=E5na bolag.

Eller helt enkelt fr=E5n anv=E4ndar-sidan, att de som k=F6per in OS och off= ice- paket tr=F6ttnar p=E5 att bli skinnade. Tyv=E4rr tror jag att det =E4r= en v=E4ldigt l=E5ngsam process som bromsas v=E4ldigt mycket av de stora ko= mmersiella bolagen som st=E5r bakom de propriet=E4ra l=F6sningarna d=E4r de= t ju finns v=E4ldigt mycket pengar involverat. Och folk som redan =E4r ink= =F6rda p=E5 MS-grejor och inte vill byta.

Linux har redan en brutal marknadsandel inom ALLT som inte =E4r "skriv= bordet". Telefoner, servrar, superdatorer, inbyggda grunkor, settopbox= ar, routrar, mediaspelare och massor med annat. I dagens Sverige s=E5 finns= det nog i det n=E4rmaste redan minst en Linux-installation i n=E4rheten av= varje inv=E5nare, bara att de flesta =E4r totalt omedvetna om det. Och jag= ser ingen minskning av Linux =E4ven fram=F6ver.

Dessutom: IDG =E4r en helt bedr=F6vlig inr=E4ttning som vi m=E5r b=E4ttre a= v att ignorera. Att de skriver strunt h=F6r ju mer till vanligheten =E4n tv= =E4rtom s=E5 detta =E4r ju inte direkt en =F6verraskning. "Hoppet st= =E5r till Android" i en artikel om Linux p=E5 skrivbordet =E4r ju s=E5= f=E5nigt att jag inte vet vad jag ska s=E4ga.

--

=A0/ daniel.haxx.se
_______________________________________________
http://foss-sthlm.= haxx.se/
http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm




--
Med v=E4nlig h=E4ls= ning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
_______________________________________________
http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/
http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm


______________________________= _________________
http://foss-sthlm.= haxx.se/
http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm




--
Med v=E4nlig h=E4ls= ning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--001485e8ab84647e6d04931b7c91-- --===============0050764463== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0050764463==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 15:19:08 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDIluh018632; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:18:56 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDIjEH018623 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:18:46 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6B0D07EB for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:18:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=sasl; bh= MDPI6RqpYxQzDd4bb79xLG/AgIY=; b=V32uwb9VYPSqiF12u3gLt6MUfANq+m5L dEXid3F5Eh18ewrynNOza0svPzX9DLNqg9ICnJfoKLm2dyTWYYfhHbHA8TlxFXYk FSx6sj6HWjqUioSYdAPubadGPiZ/b1pVEzKSUMfy8xlRwQOfnaK1+8AQUXlLhI7u 4qdbSBXJEYo= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF39D07EA for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.19.131.201] (unknown [12.27.6.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6660AD07E9 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CS:_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsda?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?torn?= From: Jeremiah Foster In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:18:36 -0400 Message-Id: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: B8FEF4C0-DD15-11DF-9F6D-89B3016DD5F0-97416961!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:19:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:18:46 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Oct 21, 2010, at 03:29, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: > What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my daily job with= people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be using linux stil= l. > = > If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more clients. But = to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifications for y= our employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you have that titl= e, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (download all ms= products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of your business st= rategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you will have a lot = of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people knowing MS tech= nology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions. > = > The circle is complete! Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, Microsoft has been the first= Open Source business. They have always allowed "free" installations of the= ir software, if you have an install disk at work you can take it and use it= at home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which they monetize later= by enforcing licenses. They have always tolerated a grey market, whereby y= ou can buy cheaper student version without proving you are a student and Mi= crosoft bets you'll upgrade. = This model works really well for the generic business tools that everyone t= hinks they need; Outlook, Excel, Word. And it will be really, really hard t= o kill this model because the software is relatively good. Where the model = breaks is in innovation and quality. That's why people who _write_ software= at least know about Linux, have used gcc perhaps, or at least know some of= the tool set and languages. If you want quality tools, that are peer-revie= wed, follow best practices, are actively maintained and help define standar= ds and protocols, you're going to have to use Free Software. = So how do we get software users and not just software developers to use Fre= e Software on the 'desktop'? Simply by writing really great software. A lot= of computing is moving to the web (or cloud) and that code runs in browser= s on any OS. Browsers themselves now are mostly Free in both senses of the = word - and there are more non-Microsoft browsers on all Desktops than IE, I= E has fallen under 50% market share even though it ships on 90% of all comp= uters. That 40% that Microsoft has lost is the tip of the sword - it is the= end of their monopoly, and that is a good thing for everyone. = Jeremiah _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 15:35:26 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDZ7sH028620; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:35:18 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDZ64h028196 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:35:06 +0200 Received: by wwb39 with SMTP id 39so4205683wwb.11 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eJKHy3vTHNvn2eI1EB4E5Vvs0BQn0uAb3qfu/CySCZA=; b=okgB8bnpULLxkIhud52y6BOmU5eyBKygsBTY3Q2IRcIeHMD23d56+d7d+U/KVOlAgY J/6g08xQRlEx4gUSOFFBoi+/TS21PJjeI4AX7E35c44Z95/jT0G8hCsHFU1seULy5oOq u38JmjnBENf9UIPHMpcfwZF+NxtcxwKDH70nE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LKKNcFb5HMPUbnf59qClCyfTCn1o+ZtRUEgciJI0w2lgmrYvxnSfHpMitLXtQJo5Df GjpWNvZ75K84hdS+ZYAJdghauZo6wt3fED3bwpkP5fhBFlplnf2eYrwlo1/iI/P5+bhZ HV6YwW9ZBc22ZjCf35yGYulOhjoXsEgNUPxZU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.155.139 with SMTP id s11mr989185wbw.221.1287668099398; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:34:59 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:35:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:35:06 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hi! 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster : > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 03:29, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: > >> What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my daily job wit= h people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be using linux sti= ll. >> >> If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more clients. But= to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifications for = your employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you have that tit= le, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (download all m= s products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of your business s= trategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you will have a lot= of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people knowing MS tec= hnology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions. >> >> The circle is complete! > > Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, Microsoft has been the fir= st Open Source business. They have always allowed "free" installations of t= heir software, if you have an install disk at work you can take it and use = it at home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which they monetize lat= er by enforcing licenses. They have always tolerated a grey market, whereby= you can buy cheaper student version without proving you are a student and = Microsoft bets you'll upgrade. What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in. > So how do we get software users and not just software developers to use F= ree Software on the 'desktop'? Simply by writing really great software. I don't think that only great software will do, you also need to create sof= tware for actual users. And, get them using it! Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus being the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end user= s. Look at Ubuntu for a good example of how focus is raised towards end users. -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 15:41:27 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDfFah001190; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:41:21 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDfDNM001150 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:41:14 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72635D0A92 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:41:09 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=sasl; bh= yM6B0F5NiJ1oQCiXCdGyVPetngk=; b=lIEjRB+6ZmINlHrOvtZ5gq+/EtFqWWHG SJOMYpYqd/W3XXHTVI6DWHojd3M6kW0q48vM6K4vCxCVwBERlN4hd9o7KreNdBsA mKGPN2py3IFjv9Q/n4BaK+ugMzSOL9+jw77QfDx8cJgoqfJiExS+feGWTLO0FRg1 qXD/2D1Wf7I= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9B4D0A91 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.19.131.201] (unknown [12.27.6.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 751E9D0A8E for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CS:_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsda?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?torn?= From: Jeremiah Foster In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:40:54 -0400 Message-Id: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: DC974952-DD18-11DF-831D-89B3016DD5F0-97416961!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:41:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:41:14 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Oct 21, 2010, at 09:34, Per Andersson wrote: > Hi! > = > 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster : >> = >> On Oct 21, 2010, at 03:29, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: >> = >>> What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my daily job wi= th people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be using linux st= ill. >>> = >>> If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more clients. Bu= t to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifications for= your employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you have that ti= tle, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (download all = ms products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of your business = strategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you will have a lo= t of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people knowing MS te= chnology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions. >>> = >>> The circle is complete! >> = >> Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, Microsoft has been the fi= rst Open Source business. They have always allowed "free" installations of = their software, if you have an install disk at work you can take it and use= it at home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which they monetize la= ter by enforcing licenses. They have always tolerated a grey market, whereb= y you can buy cheaper student version without proving you are a student and= Microsoft bets you'll upgrade. > = > What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in. I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It isn't "Free Sof= tware" and the difference between the two is huge. Free Software preserves = the Freedoms of the user so they're not blackmailed for license money. > = >> So how do we get software users and not just software developers to use = Free Software on the 'desktop'? Simply by writing really great software. > = > I don't think that only great software will do, you also need to create s= oftware > for actual users. And, get them using it! > = > Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus being > the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end us= ers. > = > Look at Ubuntu for a good example of how focus is raised towards > end users. +1 Jeremiah _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 15:47:44 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDlZf5008005; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:47:37 +0200 Received: from mail-ew0-f54.google.com (mail-ew0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDlYdp007999 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:47:34 +0200 Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so63267ewy.41 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:47:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=qAwlza3s57Qg+ayP4dLIKrEdnjIAtg3pL4d95f6vOBQ=; b=vyzJhiEn3w84KnOGwqsXHQuRAb6Ap+5zQeQOh3A+E1JkateMX9LY/I4FK/0ojFe/QU x0fQG1AXuPZBcU6/74oJ3iO0V1yFdosR84ZzfylI1L3vLOjcnl6qmzfvD5EVfgxj49+0 BBTRpMdxDHmDYJK5Ld/CAx+Lr1/YiDx5ACG8w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CHqgFQmzxK4Kk80xaEh7ARMJmUIboILDHVGdZuptrScq8ZpoV/kvGMPqXMsvK/1Tla NPndC2m0HDKuIlxhF9kGdj/dmYquwEdK8HlbgUxTg6H3HgzYUIZ39b25jh3gW/Y0Parh CquUc1kprcP5SkUusvKnQmlbTz1pXdKMLVk0Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.255.199 with SMTP id j49mr962246wes.110.1287668852091; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:47:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:47:31 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:47:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:47:34 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster : > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 09:34, Per Andersson wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster : >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2010, at 03:29, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: >>> >>>> What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my daily job w= ith people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be using linux s= till. >>>> >>>> If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more clients. B= ut to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifications fo= r your employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you have that t= itle, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (download all= ms products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of your business= strategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you will have a l= ot of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people knowing MS t= echnology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions. >>>> >>>> The circle is complete! >>> >>> Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, Microsoft has been the f= irst Open Source business. They have always allowed "free" installations of= their software, if you have an install disk at work you can take it and us= e it at home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which they monetize l= ater by enforcing licenses. They have always tolerated a grey market, where= by you can buy cheaper student version without proving you are a student an= d Microsoft bets you'll upgrade. >> >> What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in. > > I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It isn't "Free S= oftware" and the difference between the two is huge. Free Software preserve= s the Freedoms of the user so they're not blackmailed for license money. How is it Open Source? -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 15:48:52 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDmcK0008511; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:48:39 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDmaRU008415 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:48:36 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so3950711qwe.41 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:48:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=+gqCdO99CBkuAJndQ/ACJbhD/eJ+0aKHkVfNgBIPal0=; b=TUXnQOBI0U61Z3YZjfJSnvEh5FMv+8YMkWwlIP5eaGFjybTJJjM9EyDW2tu7h/zLzw jX1XdMS1kn8OABVMIAG7amgqo46LiWE6Zh9mUaGtoxMTaMGpTHasfoXGDcioAzw2WvSz 2Nzp9Qx+xvWraxvktGf6j6UdHOvWU8tnw/0wQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=NpzP7LzN8ZLxMXjUfaDnb4v9rCfICtGbRDLQeK8//QV0Q9+6fp32anKTDEBMgbHJP/ DEX6wjuRuOlYmv0lnYE7knmr4SGLnXoLlw1V5Dornd2t+zFf7D804If1yGhbZDguvX3J j6o9Tccnhy+2XmOPiCeZTPxslw15ZIASU/eL0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.236.203 with SMTP id kl11mr807354qcb.204.1287668908565; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 06:48:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:48:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:48:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:48:36 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0961024562==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0961024562== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6464174e226d9049320c746 --0016e6464174e226d9049320c746 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But how can the source be considered open in any MS product? Den 21 oktober 2010 15:40 skrev Jeremiah Foster : > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 09:34, Per Andersson wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster : > >> > >> On Oct 21, 2010, at 03:29, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: > >> > >>> What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my daily job > with people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be using linu= x > still. > >>> > >>> If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more clients. > But to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifications > for your employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you have th= at > title, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (download = all > ms products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of your busines= s > strategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you will have a = lot > of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people knowing MS > technology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions. > >>> > >>> The circle is complete! > >> > >> Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, Microsoft has been the > first Open Source business. They have always allowed "free" installations= of > their software, if you have an install disk at work you can take it and u= se > it at home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which they monetize > later by enforcing licenses. They have always tolerated a grey market, > whereby you can buy cheaper student version without proving you are a > student and Microsoft bets you'll upgrade. > > > > What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in. > > I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It isn't "Free > Software" and the difference between the two is huge. Free Software > preserves the Freedoms of the user so they're not blackmailed for license > money. > > > >> So how do we get software users and not just software developers to us= e > Free Software on the 'desktop'? Simply by writing really great software. > > > > I don't think that only great software will do, you also need to create > software > > for actual users. And, get them using it! > > > > Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus bein= g > > the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end > users. > > > > Look at Ubuntu for a good example of how focus is raised towards > > end users. > > +1 > > Jeremiah > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --0016e6464174e226d9049320c746 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But how can the source be considered open in any MS produc= t?



Den 21 oktober 2010 15:40 skre= v Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah@jeremiahfoster.com>:

On Oct 21, 2010, at 09:34, Per Andersson wrote:

> Hi!
>
> 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah@jeremiahfoster.com>:
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2010, at 03:29, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote:
>>
>>> What really brought me to my knees was collaborating in my dai= ly job with people using MS office (their xml format). If not, I'd be u= sing linux still.
>>>
>>> If you have a shiny title from microsoft, you will get more cl= ients. But to get this title, you need to get a certain number of certifica= tions for your employees from MS-licensed educational companies. If you hav= e that title, you'll get greatly reduced prices on MSDN subscriptions (= download all ms products for a monthly fee). Given that this is a part of y= our business strategy (it is, for a lot of IT-conslutancy companies), you w= ill have a lot of MS software to install on your machines, a lot of people = knowing MS technology, and a lot of clients wanting MS-based solutions.
>>>
>>> The circle is complete!
>>
>> Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, Microsoft has been = the first Open Source business. They have always allowed "free" i= nstallations of their software, if you have an install disk at work you can= take it and use it at home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which = they monetize later by enforcing licenses. They have always tolerated a gre= y market, whereby you can buy cheaper student version without proving you a= re a student and Microsoft bets you'll upgrade.
>
> What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in= .

I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It= isn't "Free Software" and the difference between the two is = huge. Free Software preserves the Freedoms of the user so they're not b= lackmailed for license money.
>
>> So how do we get software users and not just software developers t= o use Free Software on the 'desktop'? Simply by writing really grea= t software.
>
> I don't think that only great software will do, you also need to c= reate software
> for actual users. And, get them using it!
>
> Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus bei= ng
> the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end= users.
>
> Look at Ubuntu for a good example of how focus is raised towards
> end users.

+1

Jeremiah



--
Med v=E4nli= g h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--0016e6464174e226d9049320c746-- --===============0961024562== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0961024562==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 15:59:15 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDx8gZ014735; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:59:10 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LDx6Co014716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:59:06 +0200 Received: (from bjst@localhost) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o9LDx6Eh014715 for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:59:06 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:59:06 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Stenberg To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?B?ZvZy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Message-ID: <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:59:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:59:06 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Per Andersson wrote: > Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus being > the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end us= ers. Utvecklaren _=E4r_ slutanv=E4ndaren. Man skriver oftast kod f=F6r att l=F6s= a ett problem. Sedan visar det sig att l=F6sningen =E4ven hj=E4lper andra o= ch s=E5 sprids koden =F6ver v=E4rlden och ut=F6kas av andra utvecklare med = variationer i sina behov. Open source har inga "kunder" och inget automatiskt behov att tillfredsst= =E4lla n=E5gon annan =E4n den som skriver koden. Vill man skriva kod =E5t a= ndra p=E5 din fritid, f=F6r all del g=F6r det. Men gn=E4ll inte p=E5 dem so= m skriver kod =E5t sig sj=E4lva. De flesta projekt startas av en programmer= are som l=F6ser ett behov =E5t sig sj=E4lv. Glassiga GUI-projekt som Firefox, OpenOffice och Ubuntu =E4r undantag, ofta= sprungna ur kommersiella =E4ventyr. S=E5dana projekt har inte s=E4llan ans= t=E4llda programmerare som f=F6ljer order snarare =E4n skriver vad de intre= sseras av. Inte direkt normala open source-projekt allts=E5. -- = Bj=F6rn _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 16:41:04 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LEemdl008105; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:40:54 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LEeksg007970 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:40:46 +0200 Received: by wwb39 with SMTP id 39so4273249wwb.11 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:40:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=K9EiYvhRbyI9rLMJD8gY+oyNoYH32fGOATIxOVRS58g=; b=kCqb83lYuCmGUVRwCW46FB/Ox7l6OMJ9tpeHW3CR5rYxoetW1kkvx1qijmRNUu3MAQ /JfUHhz/YuVW761Z/9jNzJE4mM27Hn5ixgPW51ZZ/4QwsT1eURBrA+W7uHQ+zXIj3c37 GPxpoi3pbxbd2KT3hcn7cZFzJTmmgI065sa5k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=dX1Y2eBgDPbDd7ZYDvnEBEFCPqYFALXq/wvzvso280MwRSi9VkZklbE4d4SW4SFc8q QuOqMj1gFM0wKMuNqWdHhYFOah2CKufH5l/swgYkhG494KZ7rIiYFOYdCMLgu5lQer0S cYSYOE3zGk55AE8LYlIiReyKmcisjJVTAi5So= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.48.196 with SMTP id v46mr9825553web.28.1287672035123; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:40:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:40:34 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:40:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:40:46 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej! 2010/10/21 Bj=F6rn Stenberg : > Per Andersson wrote: >> Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus being >> the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end u= sers. > > Utvecklaren _=E4r_ slutanv=E4ndaren. Man skriver oftast kod f=F6r att l= =F6sa ett problem. Sedan visar det sig att l=F6sningen =E4ven hj=E4lper and= ra och s=E5 sprids koden =F6ver v=E4rlden och ut=F6kas av andra utvecklare = med variationer i sina behov. Utvecklaren =E4r _en_ slutanv=E4ndare. Ta distributioner t ex. D=E4r finns det ju intresse f=F6r att fler ska anv= =E4nda den, inte bara de som utvecklar den. D=E5 =E4r det ju bra om distributionen uppf= yller inte enbarts utvecklarnas behov, utan =E4ven slutanv=E4ndarnas. Debian tar anv=E4ndarnas behov p=E5 allvar. Se Debian Free Software Guideli= nes och Debian Social Contract. [0] > Open source har inga "kunder" och inget automatiskt behov att tillfredsst= =E4lla n=E5gon annan =E4n den som skriver koden. Varf=F6r pratar vi d=E5 om att fri programvara ska ta andelar av den totala anv=E4ndarbasen? (Givetvis har anv=E4ndare inget med kunder att g=F6ra.) Vidare =E4r ju sj=E4lva m=E5let med fri programvara att vi ska kunna sprida= kunskap, vara delaktiga och ha makt =F6ver vad som k=F6r v=E5ra datorer. Detta behov= =E4r ju skilt fr=E5n att l=F6sa ett tekniskt problem. > Vill man skriva kod =E5t andra p=E5 din fritid, f=F6r all del g=F6r det. = Men gn=E4ll inte p=E5 dem som skriver kod =E5t sig sj=E4lva. Vem har gn=E4llt p=E5 de som skriver kod =E5t sig sj=E4lva? :-) > De flesta projekt startas av en programmerare som l=F6ser ett behov =E5t = sig sj=E4lv. Hur har du kommit fram till det? Min uppfattning =E4r snarare att just open source-projekt s=F6ker efter samarbete runt ett givet problem. F=F6r att sl= ippa att alla ska uppfinna hjulet p=E5 eget h=E5ll. Vidare g=F6r ju folk saker =E4ven =E5t andra. M=E5nga webb-ramverk =E4r v= =E4l just kollaborativa p=E5 det h=E4r s=E4ttet? > Glassiga GUI-projekt som Firefox, OpenOffice och Ubuntu =E4r undantag, of= ta sprungna ur kommersiella =E4ventyr. S=E5dana projekt har inte s=E4llan a= nst=E4llda programmerare som f=F6ljer order snarare =E4n skriver vad de int= resseras av. Inte direkt normala open source-projekt allts=E5. Hur har du kommit fram till vad ett "normalt" open source-projekt =E4r? [0] http://www.debian.org/social_contract -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 16:48:54 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LEmeQg015454; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:48:41 +0200 Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LEmcXN015442 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:48:38 +0200 Received: by eyb7 with SMTP id 7so118123eyb.41 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:48:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=axaLBBNLQJFHsukk3/KDfkrm7dRQoX0fDHbQ8ckQ3ys=; b=x13qCPEdl5gjVqCpEcXuO50pBvR1RkbjQUpNPDk998xqq7M5smjNfn934cwqiB4oh+ vlqD9zntgLc5LCSuJD5bxJkfhQuJT42xWJ4VDirgdT4W4+W2csuACtk33HkUaSMcreY0 mlVG3pSEQcR2JyQU3Or2h2MbjxRc8a1oAazz0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ZVmpmYY6NpA63w2v+uw7cuE4aamHENSZDCnNMJepjRA/k3JkGcOap7m5GZzQqOPRVU +bYsj5RQjjHG8Dj8GW2A/mFJ1vl9GOHlU3zZp7TF+IGv441pEDGUYvQZfrBrCGaKcJGr tscGziZN2FtVWd9k5fZGPngO4arX5xn9+if2E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.181.15 with SMTP id k15mr1052993wem.82.1287672516006; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:48:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:48:34 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:48:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:48:38 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hi! 2010/10/21 Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson : > But how can the source be considered open in any MS product? MS has been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, then they released it. :-) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/23/microsoft_hyperv_gpl_violation/ -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 17:01:10 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LF12Bp025114; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:01:05 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LF10UO024931 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:01:00 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so4036134qwe.41 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:00:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nAYrzwKO3VrmC1FoCBXLLyQSFgfJiYHhMxKtRFhtpL8=; b=BWAAhJuPtdoHkENuFbnqKb5v7WyLhW8+28cKXi5AcTQXc0HpayNPJCRKFk4Wzsh2nF 4vuSKCny0M1TL3zeZa/ZV9++Uqx1WTat+936gNsuEHIYGbxN9Rrti3ZrwCOVIicjXrZl Z9aSuCWmkTMZLJgA3NVO/dMSy6MW/uv11W6n0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=CIMwLxdphSiuM9adss6HRWrRiNAVhKL6y6YUmJhcKk/wu+hFTO9rFecM3zbZxqh8YN iN6Quc3En5tPo8M6SZnetJVS+apqBNdYLU27gMIAMg9A/HT406l3kRT2G5heeSh5GqzB yPbN7cWnXIappCnv52SzffdYZv54G46szS0Eo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.187.78 with SMTP id cv14mr752475qab.263.1287673252796; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 08:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:00:52 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Android-ledare biter tillbaka mot Steve Jobs From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:01:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:01:00 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1419234801==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============1419234801== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=485b397dd353d1d7ef049321ca7f --485b397dd353d1d7ef049321ca7f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve Jobs VD gav f=F6r n=E5gra dagar sedan ett svar p=E5 det vanliga "iOS = =E4r st=E4ngt, Android =E4r =F6ppet": "In reality, we think the open versus closed argument is just a smokescreen to try and hide the real argument, which is what's best for the customer. W= e think Android is very, very fragmented and becoming more fragmented by the day. As you know, Apple strives for the integrated model, so the user isn't forced to be the systems integrator," he said. "We see tremendous value [in the integrated model]...When selling to users who want things to just work, we believe that integrated will trump fragmented every time." Andy Rubin, Google, svarar i sin Tweet: *the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git:// android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"* Det tyckte jag var roligt ;-) L=E4s artikeln p=E5 the register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/google_android_man_rubin_answer_ste= ve_jobs/ --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --485b397dd353d1d7ef049321ca7f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve Jobs VD gav f=F6r n=E5gra dagar sedan ett svar p=E5 = det vanliga "iOS =E4r st=E4ngt, Android =E4r =F6ppet":

&quo= t;In reality, we think the open versus closed argument is just a=20 smokescreen to try and hide the real argument, which is what's best for= =20 the customer. We think Android is very, very fragmented and becoming=20 more fragmented by the day. As you know, Apple strives for the=20 integrated model, so the user isn't forced to be the systems=20 integrator," he said. "We see tremendous value [in the integrated= =20 model]...When selling to users who want things to just work, we believe=20 that integrated will trump fragmented every time."


Andy = Rubin, Google, svarar i sin Tweet:
the definition of open= : "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo=20 init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"
Det tyckte jag var roligt ;-)


L=E4s = artikeln p=E5 the register: http://www.theregister.co.= uk/2010/10/19/google_android_man_rubin_answer_steve_jobs/

--
Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--485b397dd353d1d7ef049321ca7f-- --===============1419234801== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============1419234801==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 18:06:24 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LG68fF011693; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:06:14 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LG65IB011675 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:06:05 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:06:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:06:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:06:05 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Jeremiah Foster wrote: > I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It isn't "Free = > Software" and the difference between the two is huge. Free Software = > preserves the Freedoms of the user so they're not blackmailed for license = > money. I strongly disagree. Free Software and Open Source are technically the same = thing. To be open source you must comply to the ten rules, to be free softw= are = you must comply to the 4 freedoms. That's also why most open source license= s = are also free software licenses and vice versa. The differences between the two "teams" exist in pure philosophy. What the = utter goal is. What the point of the licences are. What's considered a wort= hy = sacrifize. What licenses to prefer. And so on. Remember that BSD and MIT licensed programs are 100% free software as well. -- = / daniel.haxx.se _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 21:44:32 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJiFlu007081; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:21 +0200 Received: from mail.inherit.se (inherit.se [213.180.83.34]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJiDw1007074 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:13 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.inherit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C742F3843C for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at inherit.se Received: from mail.inherit.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.inherit.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 6uxvBYSeHO4d for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from inherit.se (1-1-7-48a.sto.sth.bostream.se [82.182.135.33]) by mail.inherit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F24F2F3843B for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:43:49 +0200 From: Roland Hedayat To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?B?ZvZy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Message-ID: <20101021194349.GE20227@inherit.se> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:13 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se I too beg to differ when it comes to calling this for an Open Source business: > Indeed - and this is very smart. In many ways, > Microsoft has been the first Open Source > business. They have always allowed "free" > installations of their software, if you have an > install disk at work you can take it and use it at > home, thereby creating a viral customer base, which > they monetize later by enforcing licenses. They have > always tolerated a grey market, whereby you can buy > cheaper student version without proving you are a > student and Microsoft bets you'll upgrade. Rather it could be compared to the drug dealing business: http://slashdot.org/yro/04/06/19/0249246.shtml The link refers to a very amusing story: Shortly after Lula was elected president of Brazil, he realized that huge sums of money from the Brazilian taxpayers went into Microsofts pockets. Therefore they went for an open source strategy in the public administration. S=E9rgio Amadeu da Silveira, President of the National Institute of Information Technology (ITI) of Brazil became a prominent spokesman for the new policy. In 2004 he gave an interview for a Brazilian weekly, where he strongly criticized Microsoft's business practices, comparing them with "drug dealing", offering the product for free or for a low prize until your are "addicted", then sharply raising the price. The funny thing was that Microsoft totally miscalculated their position and strength and embarked on a defamation law suit against Sergio Amadeu. He remained unaffected, but the problem for M$ was that the story spread like wild fire over the Internet: Googling for "Microsoft" and "drug dealer" gave you the entire first page of links with references to the story. So after some weeks only, M$ went flaps down, - unconditional capitulation if I am not mistaken. The shot in the foot was painful, but they soon realized that much more pain was to come if they persevered. More on the story, and interview with S=E9rgio Amadeu da Silveira here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7654 It is a pity that such bravery is totally lacking in the public administration here, arguably one of the best marketplaces of M$ worldwide. And Konkurrensverket, the "Swedish Competition Authority" continues chasing "asphalt" cartels or whoever else... My guess is that you will find Microsoft in every computer on every desktop of every employee of Konkurrensverket... or maybe there are a handful of Macs? I even doubt that. But the days of the monopoly show many signs of being numbered. On the other hand they still have a huge amount of cash with which they can use for parasitic activity such as patent lawsuits etc. But that will furhter erode their image, hopefully. /Roland _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 21:44:40 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJiY8u007209; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:35 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJiWPM007171 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:32 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A19BD24A7 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:44:27 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=sasl; bh= MzD3pM5z1IvvpcPDR9xPcLgTY0c=; b=V97Bt8LFQ8aFPTomAFHjQvFZkHriGwj6 +RcOp9XlIeRibjTVPrOiEBNz6E4SLBULvH3uFRCDQkOdElF03nBuFRMFWWQ1BI/A e3eWMvp9n6rp8PTvpLCrVEhkQxwfnUUvKZC/bz5rmVeICrXXVlMYgnBcV9sJXAo7 kAi4wh4oJxk= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069ABD24A6 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.19.131.201] (unknown [12.27.6.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71BBFD24A5 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CS:_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsda?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?torn?= From: Jeremiah Foster In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:44:24 -0400 Message-Id: <3918CB48-7FF3-421A-A46F-9AD6CB73BAFA@jeremiahfoster.com> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 9CF52C3C-DD4B-11DF-BFD4-89B3016DD5F0-97416961!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:44:33 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Oct 21, 2010, at 09:47, Per Andersson wrote: >>> What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in. >> = >> I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It isn't "Free = Software" and the difference between the two is huge. Free Software preserv= es the Freedoms of the user so they're not blackmailed for license money. > = > How is it Open Source? Daniel Stenberg wrote: >> I strongly disagree. Free Software and Open Source are technically the s= ame thing. To be open source you must comply to the ten rules, >> to be fre= e software you must comply to the 4 freedoms. That's also why most open sou= rce licenses are also free software = >> licenses and vice versa. You're all right of course, Microsoft is not Open Source. And maybe technic= ally Free Software and Open Source are the same thing, but I don't think th= ey are. Open Source, and indeed the BSD license, grants a sort of anarchy w= hile the GPL tries to ensure everyone the same freedoms with the additional= responsibility of following the license. "Open" in practice can mean many = things, and Microsoft has written and contributed GPL code. Microsoft will = give you software through the MSDN program for example, and you can see the= source code - it is open. But you won't be able to change it, build on it,= improve it, etc. So Microsoft would never be considered a Free Software co= mpany because it would never align itself with a purely GPL (and open sourc= e) licensing scheme. And it would never abide by Debian's social contract. = This is what makes Free Software more significant than Open Source - it ena= bles a way of working, a culture (which some call political), and a set of = socially accepted norms of behavior with regard to software and community. = You can be open without adopting the free software culture and technically = the results may be the same, but you'll end up not contributing back into t= he ecosystem the same way. What is "open" can later be closed, or embedded = and essentially stolen, the BSD license allows this. The GPL forbids this. = That, to me, is a huge difference. Jeremiah _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 21:55:23 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJtH5a011970; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:55:19 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJtFIS011954 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:55:15 +0200 Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30014D25AC for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:55:11 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=sasl; bh= sYs59JGOyBuTQzC5eWPa22A1iBE=; b=h1meUkxbZuf14gGVxI757n+uqaap1PnT nRqMAkkSUZd2+yY0s5EREPquRuAPGyXiz6EN3cpJl+xV9gPqgQACQQiwCbIM4BxY mvSj5+olTPz88sfcjAquoFiqCy4ZiABnsULtoJcAhp8GK22HHQlyS/F4JE4lPh0y Qh34ApdkPrU= Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B77AD25AB for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.19.131.201] (unknown [12.27.6.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73FF5D25AA for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_CS:_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsda?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?torn?= From: Jeremiah Foster In-Reply-To: <20101021194349.GE20227@inherit.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:55:04 -0400 Message-Id: <8B900218-DA31-4E07-A8B7-41292EC72A6B@jeremiahfoster.com> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021194349.GE20227@inherit.se> To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 1CE62864-DD4D-11DF-A0E2-89B3016DD5F0-97416961!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:55:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:55:15 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Oct 21, 2010, at 15:43, Roland Hedayat wrote: > It is a pity that such bravery is totally lacking in > the public administration here, arguably one of the > best marketplaces of M$ worldwide. And > Konkurrensverket, the "Swedish Competition Authority" > continues chasing "asphalt" cartels or whoever else... I find this shocking as well. I don't understand why Sweden, of all countri= es, is so Microsoft centric. Other European countries - even our rich neigh= bor Norway - have more Linux deployments. = Gnutiken, a Free Software economic cooperative (handelsbolag) in Gothenburg= has been approached by school teachers looking for decent, inexpensive sof= tware for their students. Every time a discussion like this occurs, the tea= cher goes away from Gnutiken excited by the many possibilities that Free So= ftware has to offer their students. Once they discuss the purchase of servi= ces from Gnutiken or even getting software online for free, they are invari= ably told that under no circumstances are they allowed to install Free Soft= ware on the school's computers. This would make Microsoft upset and they'd = stop giving deep discounts. = This is an appalling practice that makes Swedes pay more for inferior softw= are and robs the school budget for more pressing needs than crappy junkware= from some American monopoly. Sadly, lobbies are extremely effective and th= e result of their work in Sweden can be seen on many desktops. Jeremiah _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 21:58:55 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJwn7q012950; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:58:50 +0200 Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LJwml3012915 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:58:48 +0200 Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39so39904wyb.41 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:58:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=X2wIRP8+/4e8KXfuD0rXc2VR3tbrvncFKoyHI3QEGRw=; b=p94XEVeZzo/PPO6Ae8eTndt8gBgzzchS7GuDt3FdQbQhY62AbQXRLQCNL5Uf4xN4Ic SgZoN+UVEM13hgu7eh8Z9Dmi9+nqSDz+9/YRl8c+IX337mp+8CpHTsXzkCp0bN4WaaHB vlTceIY4ZXQkdutLzznyD+MfDdpAy1MArhqPY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lZvGocBg/iKiz2AyCOc/IXnyABesby4HTmEgzMs9Ic/qZ4PCzInRU32zFgZvnAPVV0 UdNKw/SK2LEPc9uDZcus6f1c690VK8GJsxlvVqYzT05PKNpOmv9mF+nnr4Kxvk+MII9I dLjQRFP2glHYLycEvlyiHyXSSeG2+1f8YmUyo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.199.81 with SMTP id w59mr6220130wen.100.1287691119748; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:58:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3918CB48-7FF3-421A-A46F-9AD6CB73BAFA@jeremiahfoster.com> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <3918CB48-7FF3-421A-A46F-9AD6CB73BAFA@jeremiahfoster.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:58:38 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:58:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:58:48 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hi! 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster : > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 09:47, Per Andersson wrote: > >>>> What is described above is *not* open source in any way, it is lock-in. >>> >>> I disagree - it is "Open Source", at least in some ways. It isn't "Free= Software" and the difference between the two is huge. Free Software preser= ves the Freedoms of the user so they're not blackmailed for license money. >> >> How is it Open Source? > > Daniel Stenberg wrote: > >>> I strongly disagree. Free Software and Open Source are technically the = same thing. To be open source you must comply to the ten rules, >> to be fr= ee software you must comply to the 4 freedoms. That's also why most open so= urce licenses are also free software >>> licenses and vice versa. > > You're all right of course, Microsoft is not Open Source. And maybe techn= ically Free Software and Open Source are the same thing, but I don't think = they are. Technically probably 99.9% of open source projects are free software, and vice versa. (At least that is what I have heard Free Software Foundation say.) > Open Source, and indeed the BSD license, grants a sort of anarchy while t= he GPL tries to ensure everyone the same freedoms with the additional respo= nsibility of following the license. How is the GPL not anarchic? Remember, in anarchism we are all equal, as with the GPL. With BSD, some can choose to be more equal than others. :-) > "Open" in practice can mean many things, and Microsoft has written and co= ntributed GPL code. Yes, when they have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Never otherwise. > Microsoft will give you software through the MSDN program for example, an= d you can see the source code - it is open. But you won't be able to change= it, build on it, improve it, etc. So Microsoft would never be considered a= Free Software company because it would never align itself with a purely GP= L (and open source) licensing scheme. And it would never abide by Debian's = social contract. So, basically open is not the same thing as open source (by definition). > This is what makes Free Software more significant than Open Source - it e= nables a way of working, a culture (which some call political), and a set o= f socially accepted norms of behavior with regard to software and community= . You can be open without adopting the free software culture and technicall= y the results may be the same, but you'll end up not contributing back into= the ecosystem the same way. What is "open" can later be closed, or embedde= d and essentially stolen, the BSD license allows this. The GPL forbids this= . That, to me, is a huge difference. I don't think I can agree more. :-D -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 22:00:19 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LK0DR7014642; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:14 +0200 Received: from brev.stacken.kth.se (brev.stacken.kth.se [130.237.234.84]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LK0CC2014538 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:12 +0200 Received: from gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se [130.237.234.160]) by brev.stacken.kth.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id o9LK0872001422 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id o9LK08gO008182 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from jj@localhost) by gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id o9LK08J6008181 for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:08 +0200 From: Janne Johansson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?B?ZvZy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Message-ID: <20101021200008.GA6891@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:00:12 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 16:40+0200, Per Andersson (avtobiff@gmail.com) wrot= e: > > Per Andersson wrote: > >> Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus bei= ng > >> the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual end= users. > > > > Utvecklaren _=E4r_ slutanv=E4ndaren. Man skriver oftast kod f=F6r att l= =F6sa ett problem. Sedan visar det sig att l=F6sningen =E4ven hj=E4lper and= ra och s=E5 sprids koden =F6ver v=E4rlden och ut=F6kas av andra utvecklare = med variationer i sina behov. > = > Utvecklaren =E4r _en_ slutanv=E4ndare. > Ta distributioner t ex. D=E4r finns det ju intresse f=F6r att fler ska an= v=E4nda den, > inte bara de som utvecklar den. D=E5 =E4r det ju bra om distributionen up= pfyller > inte enbarts utvecklarnas behov, utan =E4ven slutanv=E4ndarnas. Fast "distar" som t.ex OpenBSD har ett uttalat m=E5l att vara gjort f=F6r utvecklarna, men d=E4r f=F6rst=E5s koden ges ut fritt till alla som vill ha den, m=E5 den anv=E4ndas f=F6r "baby-munching machines" eller inte. Det betyder att man kan ta beslut som faktiskt gynnar m=E5lgruppen och inte bara en t=E4nkt vokal userbase som vill ha runda h=E4rn mer =E4n funkt= ion. -- = "Backwards compatible" means: "if it isn't backwards, it's not compatible." _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 22:03:29 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LK3MOm018729; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:03:24 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LK3LoF018603 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:03:21 +0200 Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so110074wwb.11 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2/qaEG2cXWOwvGbvhWTDWSjb6Anp1Dm06b8N7iP3+VU=; b=TU+8omvUjuwdB3tZQKa5mwR1GOShQW0jo4L0FaPiOFDQb4E5UQ/jSsOphK279YsAbN FRSRCwRju6lm2+/8rYVi/anp2KvwxQsHWqX95YLgNwLbcPaa2bPm5pGdjTvKmPnrcrZU eS1mmi1R0iShtJsw51khbqt1PgWj7Ayxpd/YQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ZgAo7+ugBJqrVITL/1AKNsq8stwXn7N21/rQbnuDPwAj52qe2OO1A0rkfbSNPhcQwk D+2wifmP6iS3ElMBGIP8X5f3U2/MSHlvZ6X5VWHCBsbaA3OyCSjkmdfitSfJcEXq6nyu msUJvDtMil+Xt3p//yTbHsDzujjIzfKeVpxk4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.69.202 with SMTP id a10mr1708440wbj.81.1287691392470; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101021200008.GA6891@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101021200008.GA6891@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:03:12 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:03:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:03:21 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej! 2010/10/21 Janne Johansson : > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 16:40+0200, Per Andersson (avtobiff@gmail.com) wr= ote: >> > Per Andersson wrote: >> >> Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus be= ing >> >> the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual en= d users. >> > >> > Utvecklaren _=E4r_ slutanv=E4ndaren. Man skriver oftast kod f=F6r att = l=F6sa ett problem. Sedan visar det sig att l=F6sningen =E4ven hj=E4lper an= dra och s=E5 sprids koden =F6ver v=E4rlden och ut=F6kas av andra utvecklare= med variationer i sina behov. >> >> Utvecklaren =E4r _en_ slutanv=E4ndare. >> Ta distributioner t ex. D=E4r finns det ju intresse f=F6r att fler ska a= nv=E4nda den, >> inte bara de som utvecklar den. D=E5 =E4r det ju bra om distributionen u= ppfyller >> inte enbarts utvecklarnas behov, utan =E4ven slutanv=E4ndarnas. > > Fast "distar" som t.ex OpenBSD har ett uttalat m=E5l att vara gjort f=F6r > utvecklarna, men d=E4r f=F6rst=E5s koden ges ut fritt till alla som vill = ha > den, m=E5 den anv=E4ndas f=F6r "baby-munching machines" eller inte. > > Det betyder att man kan ta beslut som faktiskt gynnar m=E5lgruppen och > inte bara en t=E4nkt vokal userbase som vill ha runda h=E4rn mer =E4n fun= ktion. Sj=E4lvklart, det beh=F6ver g=F6ras mer! Vill vi d=E4remot sprida fri programvara utanf=F6r utvecklarkollektivet, oc= h det verkar vi ju vilja g=F6ra, beh=F6ver vi g=F6ra programvara f=F6r en st=F6rr= e m=E5lgrupp. -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 22:10:40 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LKAPAh023725; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:10:35 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LKAOnB023688 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:10:24 +0200 Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so117979wwb.11 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:10:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hXYeX/iLH871csaY0VZIUBNjPmiic1Mompi/x+dLjcw=; b=jDw9TgovYjPvYV9bn0KbdhY6nMjrpWeyK6yKdFwyFC0binwR19x+M7SAZ8jAUVT/Y4 GLMSDMXu23DYNFjNsvD0JldxbD16Ha1xPv8gnG0YUQc/ctihwqGgB+xU6jxAJlNd/Ck6 9f4bJTnj4N3zagXSRw4WnczUiUqJCEP1vsvx4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=x/G151xkBN9F7FgiNkgU4Clpwp+KlYTRH7vdCBxI54RQs13PuwfRZsZudNgIFDA2P9 OFTjfF2c8gYX1rnguT8vROCyOL8mqQx+EkO/AQs8V2FLPOXdZLOoY9Gz35DZBfE5tGoB vL7JtA/mFzHE66YpFBjfQcb2lhPTef91idJak= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.197.211 with SMTP id el19mr1731068wbb.62.1287691815823; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.152.234 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:10:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101021200008.GA6891@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:10:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Per Andersson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:10:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:10:24 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se 2010/10/21 Per Andersson : > Hej! > > 2010/10/21 Janne Johansson : >> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 16:40+0200, Per Andersson (avtobiff@gmail.com) w= rote: >>> > Per Andersson wrote: >>> >> Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus b= eing >>> >> the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual e= nd users. >>> > >>> > Utvecklaren _=E4r_ slutanv=E4ndaren. Man skriver oftast kod f=F6r att= l=F6sa ett problem. Sedan visar det sig att l=F6sningen =E4ven hj=E4lper a= ndra och s=E5 sprids koden =F6ver v=E4rlden och ut=F6kas av andra utvecklar= e med variationer i sina behov. >>> >>> Utvecklaren =E4r _en_ slutanv=E4ndare. >>> Ta distributioner t ex. D=E4r finns det ju intresse f=F6r att fler ska = anv=E4nda den, >>> inte bara de som utvecklar den. D=E5 =E4r det ju bra om distributionen = uppfyller >>> inte enbarts utvecklarnas behov, utan =E4ven slutanv=E4ndarnas. >> >> Fast "distar" som t.ex OpenBSD har ett uttalat m=E5l att vara gjort f=F6r >> utvecklarna, men d=E4r f=F6rst=E5s koden ges ut fritt till alla som vill= ha >> den, m=E5 den anv=E4ndas f=F6r "baby-munching machines" eller inte. >> >> Det betyder att man kan ta beslut som faktiskt gynnar m=E5lgruppen och >> inte bara en t=E4nkt vokal userbase som vill ha runda h=E4rn mer =E4n fu= nktion. > > Sj=E4lvklart, det beh=F6ver g=F6ras mer! > > Vill vi d=E4remot sprida fri programvara utanf=F6r utvecklarkollektivet, = och det > verkar vi ju vilja g=F6ra, beh=F6ver vi g=F6ra programvara f=F6r en st=F6= rre m=E5lgrupp. Varf=F6r skulle alla inte kunna anv=E4nda OpenBSD liksom? :-) Bara f=F6r att det =E4r kraftfullt nog f=F6r de tyngsta av utvecklare beh=F6ver det ju inte g=F6ras helt om=F6jligt att anv=E4nda f=F6r andra. Ofta blir ju (ett operativsystem) b=E4ttre f=F6r alla om tillg=E4ngligheten =F6kas. Folk som vill skr=E4ddarsy det kommer ju fortfarande att g=F6ra det efter sina behov. Vidare v=E4xer ju i s=E5dana fall den potentiella basen av folk som kommer att bidra till fri programvara i framtiden. -- Per _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 22:34:33 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LKYP19006148; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:34:27 +0200 Received: from mail-ww0-f54.google.com (mail-ww0-f54.google.com [74.125.82.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LKYNAo006135 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:34:23 +0200 Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so9504wwb.11 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:34:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:reply-to :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=u2h1VbXLHcNNvDL5oC7mqyw1ChgwHq32x65qIEK3W50=; b=UdkNyk18hGIBPJ7p/mWxfEZW6dBj1u7AL15643l7AcXf7DWCtm+TM6wiXmksVyoqyo coYsVB2+5dq59LZmfvpft3GaOWVTanbQYW6SGfzaMtdFehRTXQfPNFa/ShgkVr7GDQFq hLsmafbCCIX2432j5gOh5DSapOMJO3BJKdGPo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; b=RHA7A+B9x1D1jsh8Vldo6bR6r+Go7cIMw05ZgsqehUQmQJAlaFBr0W4wGFJYFBnDHv MphnezNtgOmWKl0dOM4IdOiwm1NUbtmXhkwmr0YoFq3+sTjfwNz45LREiXepY9h0RlPC iGHTfvxGm0m5epEC2y6qHEfnfCuGH/xLAMiYI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.148.20 with SMTP id n20mr1702936wbv.94.1287693252300; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.142.19 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:34:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8B900218-DA31-4E07-A8B7-41292EC72A6B@jeremiahfoster.com> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021194349.GE20227@inherit.se> <8B900218-DA31-4E07-A8B7-41292EC72A6B@jeremiahfoster.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:34:11 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: Glenn To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:34:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:34:24 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: glenn@repulsiv.se, FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1122705727==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============1122705727== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c75a7e367240493267236 --0016364c75a7e367240493267236 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster > > Gnutiken, a Free Software economic cooperative (handelsbolag) in Gothenburg > has been approached by school teachers looking for decent, inexpensive > software for their students. Every time a discussion like this occurs, the > teacher goes away from Gnutiken excited by the many possibilities that Free > Software has to offer their students. Once they discuss the purchase of > services from Gnutiken or even getting software online for free, they are > invariably told that under no circumstances are they allowed to install Free > Software on the school's computers. This would make Microsoft upset and > they'd stop giving deep discounts. > Well, since microsoft sell their OS and software very very cheap to schools, especially on university level, there is no real economic incitament to change that, unfortunatly. They also give OS and software for free to students under Academic Alliance, ofcourse they are not the only ones that do this, but as I just said, there is usally no reason to change from microsoft when only counting money. ..Then of course, a lot of teachers/lectors/professors already use microsoft at home, and they don't WANT to change that, they just think that everything else is bad, even without even giving it a try. --0016364c75a7e367240493267236 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2010/10/21 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah@jeremiahfo= ster.com>

Gnutiken, a Free Software economic cooperative (handelsbolag) in Gothenburg= has been approached by school teachers looking for decent, inexpensive sof= tware for their students. Every time a discussion like this occurs, the tea= cher goes away from Gnutiken excited by the many possibilities that Free So= ftware has to offer their students. Once they discuss the purchase of servi= ces from Gnutiken or even getting software online for free, they are invari= ably told that under no circumstances are they allowed to install Free Soft= ware on the school's computers. This would make Microsoft upset and the= y'd stop giving deep discounts.

Well, since microsoft sell their OS and software very= very cheap to schools, especially on university level, there is no real ec= onomic incitament to change that, unfortunatly.

They also give OS a= nd software for free to students under Academic Alliance, ofcourse they are= not the only ones that do this, but as I just said, there is usally no rea= son to change from microsoft when only counting money.


..Then of=A0 course, a lot of teachers/lectors/professors already u= se microsoft at home, and they don't WANT to change that, they just thi= nk that everything else is bad, even without even giving it a try.

--0016364c75a7e367240493267236-- --===============1122705727== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============1122705727==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 21 23:00:22 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LL0A4Y021922; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:15 +0200 Received: from mail.inherit.se (inherit.se [213.180.83.34]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9LL0866021787 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:08 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.inherit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1014F2F3843C for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at inherit.se Received: from mail.inherit.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.inherit.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id MkABv0lgeB5X for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from inherit.se (1-1-7-48a.sto.sth.bostream.se [82.182.135.33]) by mail.inherit.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7D72F3843B for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:59:45 +0200 From: Roland Hedayat To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?B?ZvZy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Message-ID: <20101021205944.GA21059@inherit.se> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021194349.GE20227@inherit.se> <8B900218-DA31-4E07-A8B7-41292EC72A6B@jeremiahfoster.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8B900218-DA31-4E07-A8B7-41292EC72A6B@jeremiahfoster.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:00:09 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 03:55:04PM -0400, Jeremiah Foster wrote: > = > On Oct 21, 2010, at 15:43, Roland Hedayat wrote: > = > > It is a pity that such bravery is totally lacking in > > the public administration here, arguably one of the > > best marketplaces of M$ worldwide. And > > Konkurrensverket, the "Swedish Competition Authority" > > continues chasing "asphalt" cartels or whoever else... > I find this shocking as well. I don't understand why > Sweden, of all countries, is so Microsoft > centric. Other European countries - even our rich > neighbor Norway - have more Linux deployments. Norway is also heavily penetrated by M$, although less. But one important reason for the extremely high penetration in Sweden/Norway is that they both had what was called 'the home computer agreement' ('hem PC avtalet') allowing tax deduction on hardware and software purchases to private consumers under certain circumstances. Since (practically) all computers had Windows on board (no tender here, the operating system was considered coming from some higher, unquestionable power) this was equivalent to a huge subsidy on M$ products - giving them an upper hand severely raising the "barrier to entry" for other actors, and free software in particular. > Gnutiken, a Free Software economic cooperative > (handelsbolag) in Gothenburg has been approached by > school teachers looking for decent, inexpensive > software for their students. Every time a discussion > like this occurs, the teacher goes away from Gnutiken > excited by the many possibilities that Free Software > has to offer their students. Once they discuss the > purchase of services from Gnutiken or even getting > software online for free, they are invariably told > that under no circumstances are they allowed to > install Free Software on the school's computers. This > would make Microsoft upset and they'd stop giving > deep discounts. > This is an appalling practice that makes Swedes pay > more for inferior software and robs the school budget > for more pressing needs than crappy junkware from > some American monopoly. Sadly, lobbies are extremely > effective and the result of their work in Sweden can > be seen on many desktops. Well, referring to my previous post, price manipulation and threats, these are well-known "drug-dealer" practices, aren't they? But again: Where is Konkurrensverket? /Roland _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 09:25:57 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M7PbU7004904; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:25:45 +0200 Received: from mail.sandklef.com (host53-122.etanet.se [217.151.53.122]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M7PaAf004900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:25:36 +0200 Received: from itupw085.itu.chalmers.se ([129.16.213.90]) by mail.sandklef.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9C0M-00021L-Ra for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:25:36 +0200 Message-ID: <4CC13C6D.7040304@sandklef.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:25:33 +0200 From: Henrik Sandklef User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101013 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 129.16.213.90 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: hesa@sandklef.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sandklef.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 Subject: OS from scratch @ FSCONS X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:14:11 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.sandklef.com) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:25:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:25:36 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Med risk att bli anklagad f=F6r att SPAM:a listan med reklam f=F6r ett = evenemang utanf=F6r listan kastar jag (=E4nd=E5) in lite info om den sista = grejen som kommit in p=E5 FSCONS. Alessandro Rubini[1] kommer att h=E5lla en workshop som heter: OS from scratch Under workshopen kommer vi att skriva ett "komplett" OS, med = utg=E5ngspunkt fr=E5n en tom katalog, designa och skriva en Makefile, = link-script, assembler- och C-kod som tillsammans bygger upp ett OS f=F6r = "cooperative-multitasking".... L=E4s mer p=E5: http://fscons.org/embedded/workshop-os-scratch [1] http://www.linux.it/~rubini/ http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596005900 _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 10:38:35 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M8cLqN013273; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:27 +0200 Received: from brev.stacken.kth.se (brev.stacken.kth.se [130.237.234.84]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M8cKIj013269 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:20 +0200 Received: from gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se [130.237.234.160]) by brev.stacken.kth.se (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id o9M8cJ72003854 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id o9M8cJEo008081 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from jj@localhost) by gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id o9M8cIbx008076 for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:18 +0200 From: Janne Johansson To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?B?ZvZy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Message-ID: <20101022083818.GA27704@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> References: <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101021200008.GA6891@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:38:20 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 22:03+0200, Per Andersson (avtobiff@gmail.com) wrot= e: > >> > Per Andersson wrote: > >> >> Too much free software is made for developers, with the only focus = being > >> >> the developer (when writing the code) and not including the actual = end users. > >> > > >> > Utvecklaren _=E4r_ slutanv=E4ndaren. Man skriver oftast kod f=F6r at= t l=F6sa ett problem. Sedan visar det sig att l=F6sningen =E4ven hj=E4lper = andra och s=E5 sprids koden =F6ver v=E4rlden och ut=F6kas av andra utveckla= re med variationer i sina behov. > >> > >> Utvecklaren =E4r _en_ slutanv=E4ndare. > >> Ta distributioner t ex. D=E4r finns det ju intresse f=F6r att fler ska= anv=E4nda den, > >> inte bara de som utvecklar den. > > > > Fast "distar" som t.ex OpenBSD har ett uttalat m=E5l att vara gjort f= =F6r > > utvecklarna, men d=E4r f=F6rst=E5s koden ges ut fritt till alla som vil= l ha > > den, m=E5 den anv=E4ndas f=F6r "baby-munching machines" eller inte. > = > Vill vi d=E4remot sprida fri programvara utanf=F6r utvecklarkollektivet, = och det > verkar vi ju vilja g=F6ra, beh=F6ver vi g=F6ra programvara f=F6r en st=F6= rre m=E5lgrupp. Som en (om =E4n liten) del av OpenBSD-teamet s=E5 st=E4ller jag mig lite fr=E5gande till din kommentar ovan. Vilka var "vi" d=E4r? = Jag ser att OpenBSDs modell funkar, dvs att man g=F6r n=E5t som =E4r s=E5 b= ra som man kan enligt sina egna m=E5tt, och inte med sj=E4lv=E4ndam=E5let att bara "=F6ka anv=E4ndarbasen". Att man sen =E4nd=E5 f=E5r en stor anv=E4ndar= bas visar ju att den modellen faktiskt ocks=E5 kan fungera. Sin egen kvalitet (, och frihet, och =F6ppenhet och..) kan faktiskt vara sk=E4l nog att skapa Open Source, oavsett om det =E4r 1 eller 1 miljon personer som sekund=E4rt drar nytta av det. = F=F6r mig k=E4nns det lite som om "=F6ka anv=E4ndarbasen" =E4r ett tecken p= =E5 att man =E4r fast i kommersiella tankar om framg=E5ng som m=E5ste m=E4tas i antalet kunder (om man nu d=E5 inte kan m=E4ta pengarna). -- = "Backwards compatible" means: "if it isn't backwards, it's not compatible." _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 11:18:04 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M9HsRl006518; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:17:58 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M9Hrq7006513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:17:53 +0200 Received: (from bjst@localhost) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o9M9Hrnh006512 for foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:17:53 +0200 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:17:53 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Stenberg To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?iso-8859-1?B?ZvZy?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Linux_p=E5?= kontorsdatorn Message-ID: <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:17:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:17:53 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Per Andersson wrote: > Varf=F6r pratar vi d=E5 om att fri programvara ska ta andelar av den tota= la > anv=E4ndarbasen? Det g=F6r "vi" inte. Vissa g=F6r det, men jag anser att begreppet "marknads= andel" =E4r fundamentalt inkompatibelt med fri programvara. =C4ven omskrive= t som "andelar av anv=E4ndarbasen". > Vem har gn=E4llt p=E5 de som skriver kod =E5t sig sj=E4lva? :-) Du: "Too much free software is made for developers". > Min uppfattning =E4r snarare att just open source-projekt s=F6ker efter > samarbete runt ett givet problem. Du beskriver en situation n=E4r projektet redan finns. Jag beskrev situatio= nen n=E4r projektet uppst=E5r. Det =E4r oftast en persons kod som lockar an= dra intresserade, inte ett g=E4ng som s=E4tter sig i ring och gemensamt skr= iver den f=F6rsta koden. > Hur har du kommit fram till vad ett "normalt" open source-projekt =E4r? Det har jag inte. Jag har bara p=E5st=E5tt att normala projekt inte har fas= t anst=E4lld personal. Om du vill kan du ers=E4tta ordet "normala" med "den= f=F6rkrossande majoriteten". -- = Bj=F6rn _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 11:48:34 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M9mJbl028454; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:48:25 +0200 Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9M9mHFe028448 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:48:17 +0200 Received: by yxl31 with SMTP id 31so567269yxl.41 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 02:48:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0KFc/cycfzRk14voW5cGo9iVF93t6QfjxQqHH7AZans=; b=chr93xpLdJ6VUDWVdUMZBty9BiqRlW1fZ6uLrAUSW6L6H2FcaUWDsHW0N1KvPRAcR2 raN/8ao1z90EpwwU9LcO1pGXxQm9XwqXOqpmkNC4tJktvijOuPHhWhJlB39iTuC9ZIgf wMyywfymbxUnlYvCyXEG/MsfzuJFCIoJ+Ic60= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=X5CNjRKWj+1YAYZd+JjF/YtVRaWgqBb6UlHdkXEznnE0GldKQNGrt9yIQLXHcr5TJu faSo9MC/x5+fZeSdlPNdsS8uqe3GxPjhun65pnlcHzSglS2AMoeFpwXEfLe5DhPh756I DPTPv7pqIJUVebgOZToFHxugyrT4yuGIeVR5w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.186.72 with SMTP id cr8mr2047734icb.241.1287740887328; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 02:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.147.81 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 02:48:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20101022083818.GA27704@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> References: <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101021200008.GA6891@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> <20101022083818.GA27704@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:48:07 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_Hedstr=F6m?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:48:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:48:17 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Ang. att det inte finns ekonomiska intressen - det beror v=E4l p=E5? Naturligtvis finns det massor med pengar att tj=E4na p=E5 Open Source. S=E5v=E4l i form av minskade licenskostnader till div. propriet=E4ra f=F6re= tag, men =E4ven som direkt inkomst av konsulttj=E4nster f=F6r att anpassa f=F6re= tags programpark till Open Source (ett sorts win-win f=F6r b=E5da parter). F=F6ljande finns bl.a. att l=E4sa p=E5 Open Source Allience hemsida: =3D=3D=3D begin qoute http://www.opensolutionsalliance.org/osa/index.html = =3D=3D=3D The Open Solutions Alliance consists of leading companies dedicated to making enterprise-class open software solutions work together. We help customers put open solutions to work by enabling application integration, certifying quality solutions, and promoting cooperation among open solutions developers. =3D=3D=3D end quote =3D=3D=3D Borde kanske l=E4gga till att detta =E4r det enda jag l=E4ste p=E5 deras si= da. Noterade dock att de hade en r=E4tt catchy slogan: "open source at work". Eg. letade jag efter en l=E4nk till OSI f=F6r att det verkar vara en viss begreppsf=F6rvirring kring vad som =E4r Open Source resp. Free Software och skillnaderna d=E4remellan: http://www.opensource.org/osd.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html N=E5gra valda sitat: "Open source doesn't just mean access to the source code. The distribution terms of open-source software must comply with the following criteria" (och sedan f=F6ljer de 10 regler som Daniel refererade till) "Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it means that the program's users have the four essential freedoms:" (och sedan f=F6ljer de 4 friheter som Daniel refererade till) Fr=E5n OSI: "The license must allow modifications and derived works, and must allow them to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original software." S=E5ledes, med OSIs definition av vad som =E4r Open Source, =E4r inte n=E5g= on av M$ produkter Open Source eftersom de inte till=E5ter att man bygger om dem och distribuerar dem vidare. K=E4llkoden =E4r h=E5rt bunden av vad man f=E5r och inte f=E5r g=F6ra, =E4ven om den =E4r tillg=E4nglig (vilket i= nte =E4r samma sak som =F6ppen, i kontexten Open Source). I =F6vrigt tar jag p=E5 mig papegojam=F6ssan och arar i takt med Bj=F6rn. D=E4rmed inte sagt att "vi" inte b=F6r jobba f=F6r att sprida en medvetenhet om att det numera finns gott om alternativ f=F6r gemeneman givet att denne person inte =E4r h=E5rt bunden till M$-stacken. Avslutningsvis =E4r just det sistn=E4mnda n=E5got jag skulle vilja se mer av p=E5 FOSS-sthlm tr=E5den, tips om bra FOSS verktyg och program som man kan testa sj=E4lv och/elller promota vidare. Eller ge mottips p=E5 program man sj=E4lv tycker =E4r =E4nnu b=E4ttre (v=E4l motiverat f=F6rhoppningsvis). Trevlig helg allihopa, ses p=E5 tisdag! // Adde _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 12:04:14 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MA47Ul005990; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:04:09 +0200 Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MA44Od005874 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:04:04 +0200 Received: by iwn39 with SMTP id 39so522501iwn.41 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 03:04:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3WFdv8HPM5bZWR+IVu7C+j9KXQW2Jke3ZLZ7Bnf2O6c=; b=aFVQaOPBy9jpi0jv/ZDOzBcFtWgpFlaCRm5lcYnUXDy45Tl+ghzhBM0yacAm0Ih/YJ oe3NkOa4pkNH67fogMYwT3YnazT8FQkauulaI+qfCSokHeyLLtmagxyuECzhoB6Ud1xi hxoNCvBUONfVsqjtCtDCknlEc4tv549U3+8JE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=q0+JE1l0MBgZKaw/fb8IbQUq02XHVjvK/tXq28kH3tLsHvhF1Zc7pHDL9JI8h+xDD+ wptl+47rGy5P1WJKC1BR3JjXZEb2TRG0oZi6XpWhewWeJpi6hnJXC/vKSZki9gkiWX4q 8y5f8uK5k5h6+cNsekgbeYe7LbSk6AOn9LIkM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.174.5 with SMTP id r5mr2250199ibz.132.1287741840137; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 03:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.147.81 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 03:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:04:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tips_p=E5_bra_=22remote=2Ddesktop=22_l=F6sningar?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_Hedstr=F6m?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:04:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:04:05 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Eftersom jag efterfr=E5gade mer tips p=E5 listan =F6ver bra och fungerande mjukvara (program och verktyg) kan jag starta trenden med att tipsa om NX fr=E5n NoMachine. http://nomachine.com/ Nu kommer vissa att komma med inv=E4ndningar om att NoMachine inte alls =E4r Open Source osv osv, men faktum kvarst=E5r att: - deras produkt baserar sig p=E5 OpenSSH - anv=E4nder sig av X11, Gnome/KDE, och annan Open Source - tillhandah=E5ller gratis mjukvara f=F6r att s=E4tta upp ett litet (max tv= =E5 samtidiga anv=E4ndare samtidigt) remote-desktop system - eftersom delar av deras produkt baseras p=E5 GPL:ad kod bidrar de till utvecklingen av dessa komponenter Vill man vara trogen Open Source, finns FreeNX: http://freenx.berlios.de/ "NX is an exciting new technology for remote display. It provides near local speed application responsiveness over high latency, low bandwidth links. The core libraries for NX are provided by NoMachine under the GPL. FreeNX is a GPL implementation of the NX Server and NX Client Components." Notera att FreeNX baserar sitt jobb p=E5 GPL:ad kod fr=E5n NoMachine. =C4nnu ett klockrent exempel p=E5 hur ett f=F6retag kan dubbellicensiera en produkt och d=E4rmed tj=E4na pengar p=E5 Open Source. Jag har k=F6rt b=E5da, och tyv=E4rr =E4r (eller var ska jag v=E4l s=E4ga) F= reeNX lite kr=E5ngligare att f=E5 ig=E5ng. NX funkar i princip direkt ur l=E5dan. Perfekt alternativ f=F6r de stackare som av f=F6retagspolitiska sk=E4l m=E5= ste husera p=E5 en M$ desktop men samtidigt har m=F6jlighet att ansluta till en Linuxburk d=E4r man bedriver sin utveckling. J=E4mf=F6rt med VNC och standard X11-forward g=E5r NX sjukt mycket smidigar= e. Clienter finns f=F6r "alla" platformar. // Adde _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 15:09:05 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MD8lr8027851; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:08:56 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MD8kru027845 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:08:46 +0200 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:08:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: foss-sthlm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Uppdaterat_program_f=F6r_m=F6te_#4?= Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-1699177333-1287752926=:8573" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:09:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:08:46 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-1699177333-1287752926=:8573 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hejsan alla! Jag vill bara göra er uppmärksamma på att ett av föredragen på tisdag har bytts ut. Robin Rosenberg kliver fram och ställer upp med ett snack om git och kodgranskning istället för det tidigare där föredragaren blivit upptagen på annat håll. http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/mote4.html Vi har några platser kvar! -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-1699177333-1287752926=:8573 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-1699177333-1287752926=:8573-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 15:54:53 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MDseHY017767; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:54:45 +0200 Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MDscEo017732 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:54:39 +0200 Received: by gwaa18 with SMTP id a18so242708gwa.41 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:54:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=xnFvmSZW3xHqxuzZFsyLNdJoM7AoXZqS+LVNZ5j51dA=; b=cxX4hJTNNIWwm8LuImgN1NdLbCiYSCmgi0ANssTOyop9QPDyMjIXpUcILYpzU5mI4W SPl4L83szf5QPgl2sI9ZURKqmN8CB+eWdnLPCpPFBSSgNObd2kRcmI4KJg/Ynhkp90Zn Qhje0G6hpBz4RRlvNg3yYPQP6u9/JeJ2q7yZ8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YQLcYg5bD1sQcjFD6KOuREZ4arMv6JtcVShG0mtNCSel0sEpffS3oeVs4oZiHQvuDu DmZHg/XVduIemo4n6kkJw7tJl8DmvV2Lw7ZHZuGU1OEwU7kOsULyhaZ8BqCIS4Mmpc9N JU2SQvI7QzHVSmQUoz9ixgW/PNP8mhzs5FHCY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.182.205 with SMTP id cd13mr2303491qcb.30.1287755670331; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.216.6 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:54:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:54:29 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFVwcGRhdGVyYXQgcHJvZ3JhbSBmw7ZyIG3DtnRlICM0?= From: Magnus Ahlberg To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:54:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:54:39 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Hej Daniel, Jag m=E5ste tyv=E4rr avboka mitt deltagande fr=E5n m=F6te #4 d=E5 min jobbsituation inte ger mig utrymme att komma ifr=E5n. Jag h=E5ller tummarna f=F6r #5. Mvh, Magnus Ahlberg 2010/10/22 Daniel Stenberg : > Hejsan alla! > > Jag vill bara g=F6ra er uppm=E4rksamma p=E5 att ett av f=F6redragen p=E5 = tisdag har > bytts ut. Robin Rosenberg kliver fram och st=E4ller upp med ett snack om = git > och kodgranskning ist=E4llet f=F6r det tidigare d=E4r f=F6redragaren bliv= it upptagen > p=E5 annat h=E5ll. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/mote4.html > > Vi har n=E5gra platser kvar! > > -- > > =A0/ daniel.haxx.se > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 18:52:07 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MGpl9Z014027; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:51:55 +0200 Received: from corpus.illuminet.se (corpus.illuminet.se [91.142.180.90]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MGpkDK014022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:51:46 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.23] (c213-89-169-120.bredband.comhem.se [213.89.169.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jonas@corpus.illuminet.se) by corpus.illuminet.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC90CCA00A1; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:51:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4CC1C11F.7000003@illuminet.se> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:51:43 +0200 From: Jonas Bosson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101006 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se Subject: Re: Android-ledare biter tillbaka mot Steve Jobs References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:52:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:51:46 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0500846487==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0500846487== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070000000406040805050900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070000000406040805050900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Det finns dock ytterligare ett dimension i öppet, som är royalty free, och här kan vi få problem när allt fler betalar vid patenttvister, som t.ex. HTC till MS. Eftersom mjukvarupatent ofta innehåller krav på publicering eller sk "record on carrier"-skrivningar så omfattas även kernel.org m.fl. av samma intrång. Man kan bara hoppas att USPTO eller andra patentverk ser publicering som "abstrakta ideer" eller på något vis undantag från patentens omfång - men just nu ser det inte ut så. Möjligheten att distribuera fritt avgörs mycket av hur många som accepterar att betala licens och på så sätt lämnar andra utanför. Tidigare var det inte legitimt att använda mjukvarupatent så, man stämde bara om man själv var hotat. Nu är det andra tider. /jonas (som kör cyanogenmod på sina androidlurar) On 10/21/2010 05:00 PM, Björn Göransson wrote: > Steve Jobs VD gav för några dagar sedan ett svar på det vanliga "iOS > är stängt, Android är öppet": > > "In reality, we think the open versus closed argument is just a > smokescreen to try and hide the real argument, which is what's best > for the customer. We think Android is very, very fragmented and > becoming more fragmented by the day. As you know, Apple strives for > the integrated model, so the user isn't forced to be the systems > integrator," he said. "We see tremendous value [in the integrated > model]...When selling to users who want things to just work, we > believe that integrated will trump fragmented every time." > > > Andy Rubin, Google, svarar i sin Tweet: > > *the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init > -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git > ; repo sync > ; make"* > > Det tyckte jag var roligt ;-) > > > Läs artikeln på the register: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/google_android_man_rubin_answer_steve_jobs/ > > -- > Med vänlig hälsning, > Björn A. Göransson > > > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --------------070000000406040805050900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Det finns dock ytterligare ett dimension i öppet, som är royalty free, och här kan vi få problem när allt fler betalar vid patenttvister, som t.ex. HTC till MS. Eftersom mjukvarupatent ofta innehåller krav på publicering eller sk "record on carrier"-skrivningar så omfattas även kernel.org m.fl. av samma intrång. Man kan bara hoppas att USPTO eller andra patentverk ser publicering som "abstrakta ideer" eller på något vis undantag från patentens omfång - men just nu ser det inte ut så. Möjligheten att distribuera fritt avgörs mycket av hur många som accepterar att betala licens och på så sätt lämnar andra utanför. Tidigare var det inte legitimt att använda mjukvarupatent så, man stämde bara om man själv var hotat. Nu är det andra tider.

/jonas (som kör cyanogenmod på sina androidlurar)


On 10/21/2010 05:00 PM, Björn Göransson wrote:
Steve Jobs VD gav för några dagar sedan ett svar på det vanliga "iOS är stängt, Android är öppet":

"In reality, we think the open versus closed argument is just a smokescreen to try and hide the real argument, which is what's best for the customer. We think Android is very, very fragmented and becoming more fragmented by the day. As you know, Apple strives for the integrated model, so the user isn't forced to be the systems integrator," he said. "We see tremendous value [in the integrated model]...When selling to users who want things to just work, we believe that integrated will trump fragmented every time."


Andy Rubin, Google, svarar i sin Tweet:
the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"
Det tyckte jag var roligt ;-)


Läs artikeln på the register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/19/google_android_man_rubin_answer_steve_jobs/

--
Med vänlig hälsning,
Björn A. Göransson

_______________________________________________
http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/
http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm

--------------070000000406040805050900-- --===============0500846487== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0500846487==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 22:59:25 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MKx7v0023917; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:59:15 +0200 Received: from vps1.henriknordstrom.net (vps1.henriknordstrom.net [195.20.207.177]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MKx52P023910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:59:05 +0200 Received: from henriknordstrom.net ([IPv6:2002:51d8:9fb7::1]) by vps1.henriknordstrom.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id o9MLEDKE020247 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:14:14 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henriknordstrom.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o9MKwxF6030688 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:58:59 +0200 Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?ISO-8859-1?Q?f=F6r?= Linux =?ISO-8859-1?Q?p=E5?= kontorsdatorn From: Henrik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm In-Reply-To: <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:58:59 +0200 Message-ID: <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.3 (2.30.3-1.fc13) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:59:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:59:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (vps1.henriknordstrom.net [IPv6:2a02:750:7::d0a]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:14:14 +0000 (UTC) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se fre 2010-10-22 klockan 11:17 +0200 skrev Bj=F6rn Stenberg: > Det har jag inte. Jag har bara p=E5st=E5tt att normala projekt inte har > fast anst=E4lld personal. Om du vill kan du ers=E4tta ordet "normala" med > "den f=F6rkrossande majoriteten". M=E5nga har iofs egentligen anst=E4lld personal, men d=E5 inte anst=E4llda = av projektet utan n=E5gon som beh=F6ver eller initierade projektet, och m=E5ng g=E5nger inte heller heltid med projektet enbart. P=E5 gott och ont. Antaltet Open Source projekt som har en egen frist=E5ende drivande organisation som kan anst=E4lla kan r=E4knas p=E5 fingrarna. Men de =E4r samtidigt bland de mest k=E4nda vilket inte =E4r s=E5 konstigt det heller. Fast n=E4r det g=E4ller Open Source s=E5 =E4r ju koden inte knuten till en specifik organisation =E4ven om det finns en s=E5dan. Vi har ju sett ett tydligt exempel p=E5 det nyligen med Open Office vs Libre Office. Mvh Henrik _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Fri Oct 22 23:57:03 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MLuruc026827; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 23:56:57 +0200 Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9MLup8G026810 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 23:56:51 +0200 Received: by gwaa18 with SMTP id a18so728689gwa.41 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:56:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=0kOAKM1Y1ZGdn6AMRFZgtqhFLpbIPJsPhSzkCTD22oM=; b=TQp0+SMNP/PnlaiwYN6f/aNsa3xQisugm5vql5Rf84h5CrZ9ROTCEioZBdOV3itSqt +YOso57W/LQ8mKZUNzy675sGcKghitmE0QaE7W8SJgu13z6oZLi2EKkk3CVOaKrkzaBd DkqYUGrvZDbVwfV8tfRYaAeWimZ7+dvb8esCk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=IgD1aoJiC6Gbh4YCa4zGvyJ+4q1AldtEYRNEZB/phRWgDpnN7WwOF5UxlPG52QJOMX wXhye3NW2eeoINUvDYzju00GdWF9L/7ZVubq0yFheKWsWPI0k1H1SxIyjjxX26wv5cBD 6gaKQbPN5gCAC9LGGCjiKOdjh+k2y+oovlH8A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.237.129 with SMTP id ko1mr2838684qcb.4.1287784601147; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:56:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 23:56:41 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 23:56:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 23:56:52 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0106515914==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0106515914== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ec9bcb2d99f04933bb7ad --0016364ec9bcb2d99f04933bb7ad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvecklare =E4r anst= =E4llda av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det? Den 22 oktober 2010 22:58 skrev Henrik Nordstr=F6m : > fre 2010-10-22 klockan 11:17 +0200 skrev Bj=F6rn Stenberg: > > > Det har jag inte. Jag har bara p=E5st=E5tt att normala projekt inte har > > fast anst=E4lld personal. Om du vill kan du ers=E4tta ordet "normala" m= ed > > "den f=F6rkrossande majoriteten". > > M=E5nga har iofs egentligen anst=E4lld personal, men d=E5 inte anst=E4lld= a av > projektet utan n=E5gon som beh=F6ver eller initierade projektet, och m=E5= ng > g=E5nger inte heller heltid med projektet enbart. P=E5 gott och ont. > > Antaltet Open Source projekt som har en egen frist=E5ende drivande > organisation som kan anst=E4lla kan r=E4knas p=E5 fingrarna. Men de =E4r > samtidigt bland de mest k=E4nda vilket inte =E4r s=E5 konstigt det heller= . > > Fast n=E4r det g=E4ller Open Source s=E5 =E4r ju koden inte knuten till e= n > specifik organisation =E4ven om det finns en s=E5dan. Vi har ju sett ett > tydligt exempel p=E5 det nyligen med Open Office vs Libre Office. > > Mvh > Henrik > > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --0016364ec9bcb2d99f04933bb7ad Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvec= klare =E4r anst=E4llda av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det?
=
Den 22 oktober 2010 22:58 skrev Henrik Nords= tr=F6m <= henrik@henriknordstrom.net>:
fre 2010-10-22 klockan 11:17 +0200 skrev Bj= =F6rn Stenberg:

> Det har jag inte. Jag har bara p=E5st=E5tt att normala projekt inte ha= r
> fast anst=E4lld personal. Om du vill kan du ers=E4tta ordet "norm= ala" med
> "den f=F6rkrossande majoriteten".

M=E5nga har iofs egentligen anst=E4lld personal, men d=E5 inte anst= =E4llda av
projektet utan n=E5gon som beh=F6ver eller initierade projektet, och m=E5ng=
g=E5nger inte heller heltid med projektet enbart. P=E5 gott och ont.

Antaltet Open Source projekt som har en egen frist=E5ende drivande
organisation som kan anst=E4lla kan r=E4knas p=E5 fingrarna. Men de =E4r samtidigt bland de mest k=E4nda vilket inte =E4r s=E5 konstigt det heller.<= br>
Fast n=E4r det g=E4ller Open Source s=E5 =E4r ju koden inte knuten till en<= br> specifik organisation =E4ven om det finns en s=E5dan. Vi har ju sett ett tydligt exempel p=E5 det nyligen med Open Office vs Libre Office.

Mvh
Henrik



--
Med v=E4nli= g h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--0016364ec9bcb2d99f04933bb7ad-- --===============0106515914== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0106515914==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sat Oct 23 11:17:16 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9N9GtAs013681; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:17:04 +0200 Received: from null.bsnet.se (nulladmin.bsnet.se [193.11.176.254]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9N9Gqx6013593 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:53 +0200 Received: by null.bsnet.se (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 6ABD224849A; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on null.rsn.bth.se X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.0 required=5.0 tests=RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD, SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null.bsnet.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1714524849B for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pallid.bsnet.se (pallid.bsnet.se [193.11.185.39]) by null.bsnet.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A0824849A for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pallid.bsnet.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA99378002 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at pallid.bsnet.se Received: from pallid.bsnet.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pallid.bsnet.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c329PxChub+n for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.147] (h-24-143-37.A213.priv.bahnhof.se [85.24.143.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tommy@nevtelen.com) by pallid.bsnet.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5EE378001 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:38 +0200 From: Tommy Nevtelen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101006 Thunderbird/3.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?ISO-8859-1?Q?f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kon?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?torsdatorn?= References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 on null.bsnet.se X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:17:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:16:53 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se On 10/22/2010 11:56 PM, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: > Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvecklare =E4r = > anst=E4llda av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det? Google pr=F6jsar i alla fall massor f=F6r att Firefox har Google som defaul= t = i s=F6kf=E4ltet. Kan det vara det du t=E4nker p=E5? -- = H=E4lsningar Tommy Nevtelen _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 24 00:54:50 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9NMsRUH023012; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:54:38 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9NMsQZ3023000 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:54:26 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so679407qwe.41 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:54:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2FkkGFzDr/AFjSp2PS0CJM0HD+YwA7uPK3N1yuyTnoU=; b=CmFXCu8v7JSuHwa7m3RFet/1sbT3245kkiYTU9WapJ2Hya8szzJ04CJR49Ab+Y/sws os6TdMvDetm6/cMANw9nLqnD1zRvE/FdcCArWl9SaPnyt+BfLlmDkHtEsQ2mGzF/BQfI HGzAO/2F20nIPX4e4wPRKF7SD8iauzAT0lheU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=O/VpVlq+mkQd+Yp7ZmrzjwScodM83zGu/0eMs6EAlWZs+KcxnjnfItmKNR6Tg9qK3T Zs2dyJ9uykt6DoACSMC4FAsPiSNORVF6fez03yjgG0Yj/hZjSDtXnsR9DPAS9SAiBm9Z dvrZ46bt2bh9fOM5AqFxP4I37TN1LdIcnet+o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.249.3 with SMTP id mi3mr4080764qcb.287.1287874455750; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:54:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:54:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:54:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:54:26 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1727484577==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============1727484577== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64cc8547356ba049350a334 --0016e64cc8547356ba049350a334 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nej typ n=E5got liknande denna artikel (tv=E5 av de fr=E4msta firefox-utvec= klarna blev anst=E4llda av google): http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Google-Browser-59492 ...men det jag h=F6rde var =E4nnu mer vidstr=E4ckande. Jag vet inte. Bj=F6rn Den 23 oktober 2010 11:16 skrev Tommy Nevtelen : > On 10/22/2010 11:56 PM, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: > >> Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvecklare =E4r ans= t=E4llda >> av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det? >> > > Google pr=F6jsar i alla fall massor f=F6r att Firefox har Google som defa= ult i > s=F6kf=E4ltet. Kan det vara det du t=E4nker p=E5? > > -- > H=E4lsningar > Tommy Nevtelen > > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --0016e64cc8547356ba049350a334 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nej typ n=E5got liknande denna artikel (tv=E5 av de fr=E4m= sta firefox-utvecklarna blev anst=E4llda av google): http://www.dslreports.com/sho= wnews/Google-Browser-59492

...men det jag h=F6rde var =E4nnu mer vidstr=E4ckande. Jag vet inte.
Bj=F6rn

Den 23 oktober 2010 11:16 sk= rev Tommy Nevtelen <tommy@nevtelen.com>:
On 10/22/2010 11:56 PM, B= j=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote:
Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvecklare =E4r anst= =E4llda av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det?

Google pr=F6jsar i alla fall massor f=F6r att Firefox har Google som defaul= t i s=F6kf=E4ltet. Kan det vara det du t=E4nker p=E5?

--
H=E4lsningar
Tommy Nevtelen



--
Med v=E4nli= g h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--0016e64cc8547356ba049350a334-- --===============1727484577== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============1727484577==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Sun Oct 24 00:56:55 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9NMuo36024025; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:50 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9NMumgL024012 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:48 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so680317qwe.41 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:56:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=e9+RmuRfGDQOWOFrgVLcRvKvPf/YIj3eJKFznisR64M=; b=HVRkFXAnDIjQFTNzj6avcLt+kW35a6Wpmwiwki7PkX2lQDfhMMHJZxLxE+7gRlAHfX sKNAT7Kv0yjWDzTjRQg5sFL/+Pcs9+G+gu4zAVdTm69NfOB8b7IGpInVVi1kmpdJh054 gI41JlgKGVs+mp/YID0w5UI13ABe1GqmQ2a5o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=jR3ZyPLe/3ut92iZtZ46q9bK5l2Dol71gMtbADzQhGZQxBXeYdiJcdahxY7CLXvzl8 S/fOsrOMspJvPo7VrkcNJHW0E+CinZJz5FaB81U7Cufl97LeEr1AYX1ahyg2JsdJeQUf 60DCqbv/ZAnjv7X2rEuBQDVpRqRvMwL//HKJA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.87.74 with SMTP id v10mr4310330qcl.38.1287874598816; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:56:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:38 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Sun, 24 Oct 2010 00:56:49 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0202512941==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0202512941== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ef503fa4bdb049350ab00 --0016364ef503fa4bdb049350ab00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C4ven: "Google hired top Firefox developers in 2005 and 2006 such as Darin Fisher, Pam Greene, and Brian Ryner." http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/09/google-chrome.html Bj=F6rn Den 24 oktober 2010 00:54 skrev Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson : > Nej typ n=E5got liknande denna artikel (tv=E5 av de fr=E4msta firefox-utv= ecklarna > blev anst=E4llda av google): > http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Google-Browser-59492 > > ...men det jag h=F6rde var =E4nnu mer vidstr=E4ckande. Jag vet inte. > > Bj=F6rn > > Den 23 oktober 2010 11:16 skrev Tommy Nevtelen : > > On 10/22/2010 11:56 PM, Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson wrote: >> >>> Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvecklare =E4r >>> anst=E4llda av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det? >>> >> >> Google pr=F6jsar i alla fall massor f=F6r att Firefox har Google som def= ault i >> s=F6kf=E4ltet. Kan det vara det du t=E4nker p=E5? >> >> -- >> H=E4lsningar >> Tommy Nevtelen >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ >> http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm >> > > > > -- > Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, > Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --0016364ef503fa4bdb049350ab00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C4ven:

"Google hired top Firefox developers = in 2005 and 2006 such as Darin Fisher, Pam Greene, and Brian Ryner." <= br>
http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/09/google-chrome.html

Bj=F6rn

Den 24 oktober 2010 00:54 skr= ev Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson <bornemix@gmail.com>:
Nej typ n=E5got liknande denna artikel (tv=E5 av de fr=E4m= sta firefox-utvecklarna blev anst=E4llda av google): http://www.= dslreports.com/shownews/Google-Browser-59492

...men det jag h=F6rde var =E4nnu mer vidstr=E4ckande. Jag vet inte.
Bj=F6rn

Den 23 oktober 2010 11:16 sk= rev Tommy Nevtelen <tommy@nevtelen.com>:

On 10/22/2010 11:56 PM, Bj=F6rn G=F6ran= sson wrote:
Jag har h=F6rt att i princip alla engagerade firefox-utvecklare =E4r anst= =E4llda av google tex... N=E5gon som kan bekr=E4fta det?

Google pr=F6jsar i alla fall massor f=F6r att Firefox har Google som defaul= t i s=F6kf=E4ltet. Kan det vara det du t=E4nker p=E5?

--
H=E4lsningar
Tommy Nevtelen



--
Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson



--
Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning= ,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--0016364ef503fa4bdb049350ab00-- --===============0202512941== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0202512941==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 25 14:40:00 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9PCdXmP023482; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:39:45 +0200 Received: from vps1.henriknordstrom.net (vps1.henriknordstrom.net [195.20.207.177]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9PCdWTo023476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:39:32 +0200 Received: from henriknordstrom.net ([IPv6:2002:51d8:9fb7::1]) by vps1.henriknordstrom.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-2build1) with ESMTP id o9PCdSmf032291 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:39:30 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henriknordstrom.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o9PCdPWg009242 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:39:25 +0200 Subject: Re: CS: Inget intresse =?ISO-8859-1?Q?f=F6r?= Linux =?ISO-8859-1?Q?p=E5?= kontorsdatorn From: Henrik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:39:25 +0200 Message-ID: <1288010365.1954.2.camel@henriknordstrom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.3 (2.30.3-1.fc13) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:39:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:39:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (vps1.henriknordstrom.net [IPv6:2a02:750:7::d0a]); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:39:30 +0000 (UTC) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se s=F6n 2010-10-24 klockan 00:56 +0200 skrev Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson: > =C4ven: = > = > "Google hired top Firefox developers in 2005 and 2006 such as Darin > Fisher, Pam Greene, and Brian Ryner." = > = > http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/09/google-chrome.html Google =E4r lite av en tv=E4ttsvamp. Massor av duktigt Open Source folk anst=E4lls, och bara n=E5gra f=E5 h=F6r man n=E5got av efter=E5t. De flesta f=F6rsvinner in i olika interna projekt. Vore intressant att titta p=E5 hur m=E5nga av Firefox utvecklarna som Google anst=E4llt fortfarande bidrar till Firefox, och hur Googles anst=E4llning p=E5verkat detta. Mvh Henrik _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Mon Oct 25 14:59:17 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9PCxB56003059; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:59:13 +0200 Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9PCx9XE003030 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:59:09 +0200 Received: by qwe4 with SMTP id 4so1610312qwe.41 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 05:59:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=DPmnIx3tRjE8DIdkHTpCI55JelZ2t2OOnw72T39ABRE=; b=pvwK4LHxqkszRICxMsVyr8KpqrW/p9BhL/A5lwdp6L5rOal9xyy4HYvaykm4eIBpx9 HrbpWxkqWjfEO/6yj4yNxBrPRF6nlzPyoBmxVo0wnkVdgvLJCWre1b3tOeK+PPmIKav5 jGjcvM6ste0K6tKAkbtQmSJJc/9rK75dB5l/g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ckU+oPPRVWXiuLfWdisxakweYiM+UcNdUJbJtITJuZb2RjDp1DpVZHpnlC8eUnNTMy Z3JCQqrSIr49q12NYLDap8JbURUQfJPD6OblgGA0JWLiPyhobrSKJs0naNE2AWdPNCKZ PdTU1B6EbIoZiS+4XvpPf7BaiRPAoWHcsBo0Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.84.20 with SMTP id h20mr5575919qcl.6.1288011540202; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 05:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.239.70 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 05:59:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1288010365.1954.2.camel@henriknordstrom.net> References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> <1288010365.1954.2.camel@henriknordstrom.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:59:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_G=F6ransson?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:59:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:59:09 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0759616244==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============0759616244== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163641840d5204310493708e0c --00163641840d5204310493708e0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ja, det =E4r intressant - kan googles NDA p=E5verka deras f=F6rm=E5ga att b= idra till open source applikationer? Bj=F6rn Den 25 oktober 2010 14:39 skrev Henrik Nordstr=F6m : > s=F6n 2010-10-24 klockan 00:56 +0200 skrev Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson: > > =C4ven: > > > > "Google hired top Firefox developers in 2005 and 2006 such as Darin > > Fisher, Pam Greene, and Brian Ryner." > > > > http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/09/google-chrome.html > > > Google =E4r lite av en tv=E4ttsvamp. Massor av duktigt Open Source folk > anst=E4lls, och bara n=E5gra f=E5 h=F6r man n=E5got av efter=E5t. De fles= ta > f=F6rsvinner in i olika interna projekt. > > Vore intressant att titta p=E5 hur m=E5nga av Firefox utvecklarna som Goo= gle > anst=E4llt fortfarande bidrar till Firefox, och hur Googles anst=E4llning > p=E5verkat detta. > > > Mvh > Henrik > > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > --=20 Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson --00163641840d5204310493708e0c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ja, det =E4r intressant - kan googles NDA p=E5verka deras = f=F6rm=E5ga att bidra till open source applikationer?

Bj=F6rn
Den 25 oktober 2010 14:39 skrev Henrik Nordstr= =F6m <he= nrik@henriknordstrom.net>:
s=F6n 2010-10-24 klockan 00:56 +0200 skrev = Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson:
> =C4ven:
>
> "Google hired top Firefox developers in 2005 and 2006 such as Dar= in
> Fisher, Pam Greene, and Brian Ryner."
>
> http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/09/google-chrome.= html


Google =E4r lite av en tv=E4ttsvamp. Massor av duktigt Open Source fo= lk
anst=E4lls, och bara n=E5gra f=E5 h=F6r man n=E5got av efter=E5t. De flesta=
f=F6rsvinner in i olika interna projekt.

Vore intressant att titta p=E5 hur m=E5nga av Firefox utvecklarna som Googl= e
anst=E4llt fortfarande bidrar till Firefox, och hur Googles anst=E4llning p=E5verkat detta.


Mvh
Henrik



--
Med v=E4nli= g h=E4lsning,
Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson
--00163641840d5204310493708e0c-- --===============0759616244== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --===============0759616244==-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Tue Oct 26 09:35:55 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9Q7ZYWE031519; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:35:44 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9Q7ZX2J031510 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:35:33 +0200 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:35:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: foss-sthlm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?V=E4lkomna_om_145_minuter!?= Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-2076922523-1288078533=:10273" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:35:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:35:33 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-2076922523-1288078533=:10273 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hejsan Det är med glädje jag kan säga att vi är just nu 95 personer anmälda, så ifall det finns några eftersläntare så får ni säkert plats också. Försök vara på plats i god tid, så att vi kan dra igång 13:00 och hålla tiderna. Några kommer vara lite beroende på att tiderna är någorlunda i sync med planerna. Jag och några andra kommer med säkerhet att befinnas oss i eller i närheten av lokalerna från 12:30 eller så. Vi ses snart! -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-2076922523-1288078533=:10273 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-2076922523-1288078533=:10273-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 28 00:42:20 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9RMfcKI015257; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:42:08 +0200 Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9RMfakT015245 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:41:36 +0200 Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1182025bwz.41 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:41:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sKacHkByh5ljV5SYJ3NMFY3Mp/LRhkWV30Y1dsEo+aA=; b=ZVQtKKwrFZVJ5myDjARBAnTLstNuYyjjo0+NBnJ8auTPNMzRg8tNMf3HB7p2P19si9 vXSBD+p3S4jUL9rmzhLVVA0qfYw36t2wslf3ST/hdwp9RAmMk/pWUDr53hVbiCzJKC7Z ecq+a6rr/QzFyORaxAPOwh8fi33St8OPp8kwA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=PVHCEJxgI6RYRApmfm8xFXz8CG9H3WNMlW11QDfnA3VFTN5G0bFQrJ6mwyogQ/+6i1 K0axomNyp46kzdrogsAffiae840PUpWrlcF7ffHBjgktVHyXlTy/v9ZTEzKe/W8BCFgP URkQ7T9h9/ToE8t5xUKLUj4ikh2kbDDKRzLYY= Received: by 10.204.51.83 with SMTP id c19mr4870486bkg.10.1288219292333; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:41:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.63.5 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:40:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010201133.00164.jostein@vait.se> <20101021135906.GD3175@giant> <20101022091753.GC21996@giant> <1287781139.27329.51.camel@henriknordstrom.net> <4CC2A7F6.2020400@nevtelen.com> <1288010365.1954.2.camel@henriknordstrom.net> From: Lars Albertsson Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:40:52 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_CS=3A_Inget_intresse_f=F6r_Linux_p=E5_kontorsdatorn?= To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:42:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:41:36 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se 2010/10/25 Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson : > Ja, det =E4r intressant - kan googles NDA p=E5verka deras f=F6rm=E5ga att= bidra till > open source applikationer? Nej, det finns inga s=E5dana hinder och m=E5nga anst=E4llda p=E5 Google bid= rar till open source projekt, b=E5de i och utanf=F6r arbetet. Det finns inte heller n=E5gon byr=E5krati som begr=E4nsar bidrag till OSS. Det kan h=E4vdas att Google =E4r det f=F6retag som har bidragit flest rader kod som open source. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10354530-16.html En del open source hackare som blir anst=E4llda blir s=E5 klart distraherade av interna projekt och f=F6rsvinner fr=E5n =F6ppna projekt. = =C5 andra sidan finns det andra som f=E5r till arbetsuppgift att bidra tlil OSS-projekt. /Lalle > Bj=F6rn > > Den 25 oktober 2010 14:39 skrev Henrik Nordstr=F6m > : >> >> s=F6n 2010-10-24 klockan 00:56 +0200 skrev Bj=F6rn G=F6ransson: >> > =C4ven: >> > >> > "Google hired top Firefox developers in 2005 and 2006 such as Darin >> > Fisher, Pam Greene, and Brian Ryner." >> > >> > http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/09/google-chrome.html >> >> >> Google =E4r lite av en tv=E4ttsvamp. Massor av duktigt Open Source folk >> anst=E4lls, och bara n=E5gra f=E5 h=F6r man n=E5got av efter=E5t. De fle= sta >> f=F6rsvinner in i olika interna projekt. >> >> Vore intressant att titta p=E5 hur m=E5nga av Firefox utvecklarna som Go= ogle >> anst=E4llt fortfarande bidrar till Firefox, och hur Googles anst=E4llning >> p=E5verkat detta. >> >> >> Mvh >> Henrik >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ >> http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > > > -- > Med v=E4nlig h=E4lsning, > Bj=F6rn A. G=F6ransson > > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 28 10:43:42 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9S8hL7X009461; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:43:29 +0200 Received: from giant.haxx.se (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9S8hKBB009442 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:43:20 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:43:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Stenberg X-X-Sender: dast@giant.haxx.se To: foss-sthlm Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Intro_till_foss_-_f=F6r_ggm=3F?= Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) X-fromdanielhimself: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1129329158-1479940713-1288255400=:5323" X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:43:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:43:20 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --1129329158-1479940713-1288255400=:5323 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hejsan! Jag pratade med en tjej som är engagerad inom Geek Girl Meetup och en fundering dök upp om att det vore antagligen bra med ett "intro till foss"-föredrag. Ett sånt är generellt bra, men det svåra är ju att vi inom foss-sthlm inte är rätt grupp att rikta sig mot eftersom man är här redan när man har åtminstone hyfsad koll. Det tarvar alltså att man hittar andra forum att kunna köra såna dragningar i. Geek Girl Meetup är ett möjligt sådant forum. Som det kanske framgår så kan förstås inte _jag_ då pusha för något speciellt där eftersom det är en sammanslutning för enbart tjejer, men detta är mitt sätt att påpeka för de kvinnliga deltagarna här på listan att A) de har snart en konferens [1] och B) det finns ett läge att "predika"! ;-) Självklart finns det även andra forum, och ifall ni hittar lägen så posta gärna. Jag är säkert på att vi är flera som kan tänka oss att snacka för (f)oss. [1] = http://simplesignup.se/event/4501-geek-girl-meetup-20+21-november-2010 -- / daniel.haxx.se --1129329158-1479940713-1288255400=:5323 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm --1129329158-1479940713-1288255400=:5323-- From foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Thu Oct 28 11:07:20 2010 Return-Path: Received: from giant.haxx.se (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9S97BFT025363; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:07:13 +0200 Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by giant.haxx.se (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1) with ESMTP id o9S97Ada025337 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:07:10 +0200 Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1511120bwz.41 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:reply-to:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=w6tD4cGG+yfSyavY8XfjPGPGw7ghmPy6HcQSwhYKdVQ=; b=qS8eSd/FseTuqGofjHNh0g+7OM5zBFapgaO1XVAofoB3rCikM41sW0mZ1Au7t+4yNL J1CURLtAiAQNtUiwJGxTvEjot9fr+McQpCKiCRPHG4vL4Xxj5PolrCnHJkhCOvBtAbJY dW/7AJQ1VBIh1bqGhwDVKHVkYNIO+BSRqS6pU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=GaDgoq7kbzoy2FJob2fCYmlvxQWamZrDAyRiQiuInVd8mqMTss67T1izUaIkIteUj/ 4+8itkfh3pvJ3BxHu3mmiOD969aFaWWGIBbCO4ByAmxDbC4GQnEduCp3QYTWgTGMqO01 ftlFRDh8u1oXSJxAQhK/FxU9h2bwUCNNpwW+0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.112.2 with SMTP id u2mr1450827bkp.5.1288256828115; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 02:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.59.148 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2010 02:07:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:07:08 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -LSFBNrzPZrM7zacxjlPrbGE3Wo Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Intro_till_foss_=2D_f=C3=B6r_ggm=3F?= From: Sima Baymani To: FOSS-folk i Stockholm X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:07:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.5 (giant.haxx.se [80.67.6.50]); Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:07:10 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: foss-sthlm@cool.haxx.se X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: sima@kth.se, FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Id: FOSS-folk i Stockholm List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1309771702==" Sender: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se Errors-To: foss-sthlm-bounces@cool.haxx.se --===============1309771702== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99d6a9e8d6d0493a9aac6 --0016e6d99d6a9e8d6d0493a9aac6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Om n=C3=A5gon h=C3=A4r =C3=A4r tveksam till GGM kan jag verkligen rekommend= era att vara med. Jag har tidigare varit med och varit j=C3=A4tten=C3=B6jd. Utbytet man = f=C3=A5r av alla m=C3=A4nniskor med positiv attityd och enorm nyfikenhet =C3=A4r v=C3=A4ldig= t stort. Jag m=C3=A5ste erk=C3=A4nna att jag f=C3=B6rsta g=C3=A5ngen var tveksam til= l vad det kunde ge mig, eftersom fokus f=C3=B6r de flesta ligger mer =C3=A5t webb-h=C3=A5llet = vilket =C3=A4r v=C3=A4ldigt l=C3=A5ngt fr=C3=A5n det jag sj=C3=A4lv h=C3=A5ller p=C3=A5 me= d, embedded. Men d=C3=A5 s=C3=A5g jag till att introducera andra till det jag g=C3=B6r ist=C3=A4llet, och fick v= =C3=A4ldigt bra respons. Det funkar att prata korskompilering och drivisar med den typen av v=C3=A4ldigt blandad publik som det =C3=A4r d=C3=A4r. Folk =C3=A4r intresse= rade av all typ av teknik och som vanligt l=C3=A4r man sig mycket sj=C3=A4lv av det hela. Allts=C3=A5 skulle ett intro till FOSS vara perfekt n=C3=A4sta steg! Tyv=C3=A4rr k=C3=A4nner inte jag att jag =C3=A4r r=C3=A4tt person att g=C3= =B6ra det, men jag uppmuntrar verkligen till att engagera sig i detta! -Sima 2010/10/28 Daniel Stenberg > Hejsan! > > Jag pratade med en tjej som =C3=A4r engagerad inom Geek Girl Meetup och e= n > fundering d=C3=B6k upp om att det vore antagligen bra med ett "intro till > foss"-f=C3=B6redrag. > > Ett s=C3=A5nt =C3=A4r generellt bra, men det sv=C3=A5ra =C3=A4r ju att vi= inom foss-sthlm inte > =C3=A4r r=C3=A4tt grupp att rikta sig mot eftersom man =C3=A4r h=C3=A4r r= edan n=C3=A4r man har > =C3=A5tminstone hyfsad koll. Det tarvar allts=C3=A5 att man hittar andra = forum att > kunna k=C3=B6ra s=C3=A5na dragningar i. > > Geek Girl Meetup =C3=A4r ett m=C3=B6jligt s=C3=A5dant forum. Som det kans= ke framg=C3=A5r s=C3=A5 kan > f=C3=B6rst=C3=A5s inte _jag_ d=C3=A5 pusha f=C3=B6r n=C3=A5got speciellt = d=C3=A4r eftersom det =C3=A4r en > sammanslutning f=C3=B6r enbart tjejer, men detta =C3=A4r mitt s=C3=A4tt a= tt p=C3=A5peka f=C3=B6r de > kvinnliga deltagarna h=C3=A4r p=C3=A5 listan att A) de har snart en konfe= rens [1] och > B) det finns ett l=C3=A4ge att "predika"! ;-) > > Sj=C3=A4lvklart finns det =C3=A4ven andra forum, och ifall ni hittar l=C3= =A4gen s=C3=A5 posta > g=C3=A4rna. Jag =C3=A4r s=C3=A4kert p=C3=A5 att vi =C3=A4r flera som kan = t=C3=A4nka oss att snacka f=C3=B6r > (f)oss. > > [1] =3D > http://simplesignup.se/event/4501-geek-girl-meetup-20+21-november-2010 > > -- > > / daniel.haxx.se > _______________________________________________ > http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/ > http://cool.haxx.se/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foss-sthlm > > --0016e6d99d6a9e8d6d0493a9aac6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Om n=C3=A5gon h=C3=A4r =C3=A4r tveksam till GGM kan jag verkligen rekommend= era att vara med. Jag har tidigare varit med och varit j=C3=A4tten=C3=B6jd.= Utbytet man f=C3=A5r av alla m=C3=A4nniskor med positiv attityd och enorm = nyfikenhet =C3=A4r v=C3=A4ldigt stort.=C2=A0

Jag m=C3=A5ste erk=C3=A4nna att jag f=C3=B6rsta g=C3=A5ngen = var tveksam till vad det kunde ge mig, eftersom fokus f=C3=B6r de flesta li= gger mer =C3=A5t webb-h=C3=A5llet vilket =C3=A4r v=C3=A4ldigt l=C3=A5ngt fr= =C3=A5n det jag sj=C3=A4lv h=C3=A5ller p=C3=A5 med, embedded. Men d=C3=A5 s= =C3=A5g jag till att introducera andra till det jag g=C3=B6r ist=C3=A4llet,= och fick v=C3=A4ldigt bra respons. Det funkar att prata korskompilering oc= h drivisar med den typen av v=C3=A4ldigt blandad publik som det =C3=A4r d= =C3=A4r. Folk =C3=A4r intresserade av all typ av teknik och som vanligt l= =C3=A4r man sig mycket sj=C3=A4lv av det hela.

Allts=C3=A5 skulle ett intro till FOSS vara perfekt n= =C3=A4sta steg!

Tyv=C3=A4rr k=C3=A4nner inte jag a= tt jag =C3=A4r r=C3=A4tt person att g=C3=B6ra det, men jag uppmuntrar verkl= igen till att engagera sig i detta!

-Sima

2010/10/28 Dani= el Stenberg <daniel@= haxx.se>
Hejsan!

Jag pratade med en tjej som =C3=A4r engagerad inom Geek Girl Meetup och en = fundering d=C3=B6k upp om att det vore antagligen bra med ett "intro t= ill foss"-f=C3=B6redrag.

Ett s=C3=A5nt =C3=A4r generellt bra, men det sv=C3=A5ra =C3=A4r ju att vi i= nom foss-sthlm inte =C3=A4r r=C3=A4tt grupp att rikta sig mot eftersom man = =C3=A4r h=C3=A4r redan n=C3=A4r man har =C3=A5tminstone hyfsad koll. Det ta= rvar allts=C3=A5 att man hittar andra forum att kunna k=C3=B6ra s=C3=A5na d= ragningar i.

Geek Girl Meetup =C3=A4r ett m=C3=B6jligt s=C3=A5dant forum. Som det kanske= framg=C3=A5r s=C3=A5 kan f=C3=B6rst=C3=A5s inte _jag_ d=C3=A5 pusha f=C3= =B6r n=C3=A5got speciellt d=C3=A4r eftersom det =C3=A4r en sammanslutning f= =C3=B6r enbart tjejer, men detta =C3=A4r mitt s=C3=A4tt att p=C3=A5peka f= =C3=B6r de kvinnliga deltagarna h=C3=A4r p=C3=A5 listan att A) de har snart= en konferens [1] och B) det finns ett l=C3=A4ge att "predika"! ;= -)

Sj=C3=A4lvklart finns det =C3=A4ven andra forum, och ifall ni hittar l=C3= =A4gen s=C3=A5 posta g=C3=A4rna. Jag =C3=A4r s=C3=A4kert p=C3=A5 att vi =C3= =A4r flera som kan t=C3=A4nka oss att snacka f=C3=B6r (f)oss.

[1] =3D http://simplesignup.se/event/4501-geek-gi= rl-meetup-20+21-november-2010

--

=C2=A0/ daniel.haxx.se<= /a>
_______________________________________________
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